| Author |
Message |
LABryan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:27 am: | |
When I went to use bus yesterday I found on "pre-flight" that all brake lights were activated regardless of foot brake application. (Bus was fully aired up.) The lights stayed on even when the bus was shut off. The only way to shut them off was to pull the 24v battery disconnect. They come on immediately when battery re-connected. All other lights worked fine. I know very little about the chassis electrical or even where the components are located. This is 90 Prevost LeMirage. Any ideas about where I should start? Thanks.
Bryan |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 11:43 am: | |
I don't know the Prevo specifically, but both(Grumman & Neoplan) of my buses have the brake light switch located in the brake relay air valve(?), which is located above the drive axle(or somewhere near the center line of the drive axle) on both. Sounds like yours is stuck in the closed position. The brake canisters are supplied from this valve. |
BrianMCI
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:07 pm: | |
My own feeling is that, just as JMax suggests, your brake light switch is the problem. Provided that your brakes work as they should and the only malfunction is the lights...
Brian |
Ed Skiba (Ednj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 6:58 pm: | |
Could it be simply that the parking brake is on? |
Jayrjay
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 8:28 pm: | |
To prolong switch life, I think the LeMirage uses a relay to pick up the amp load. If the switch is not stuck "on" then look in the relay compartment. ...JJ |
LABryan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 8:36 pm: | |
Thanks, guys. I figure it is a stuck switch as you suggest. The brakes work fine and there is no problem holding air. It's not a parking brake issue as the brakelights don't activate with the parking brake on my bus, only with service brake. (The chassis manual says brakelights come on when Jake is engaged, but I don't know if that is true.) I checked with the parking brake off and fiddled with the Jake switches just to be sure, but brake lights stayed on. The strange thing is that the brake lights remain lit even with the ignition switch off. Maybe that's normal on a bus, but the brake lights on most cars I've owned do not light while the ignition is off. ('64 Jeep Wagoneer being the exception)
Assuming I find the switch, does anybody know how to "unstick" it or should I replace it? Suggestions welcome!
Bryan |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:55 pm: | |
I know nothing about Prevost (they make beer? ehh), but most brake
light circuits are tied into the emergency warning flasher circuit.
The 4-way warning circuit would be powered regardless of ignition
position and any defect or failure of the flasher unit (relay) would
result in the brake lights to remain on. It might be worthwhile to
check the easy things first, before crawling in the gravel. |
Ron Walker (Prevost82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:15 pm: | |
Hi LABryan ...the brake light switch on my Prevost is in the front of the bus in the spare tire area. The brake lights on a Prevost are not tied to the 4 emergency warning flasher circuit..this is tied to the turn signal circuit. There's a "brake light relay" in the rear panel, which you should also check out.
Ron |
Earl-8-Ky
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 2:11 pm: | |
I think you will find that you have two brake light switches. One is for when you apply the parking brake and the other for the service brakes.My MCI MC8 is set up that way. One one will close with no preassure the parking brake the other with preassure the service brake. I had about the same problem and this is what I found. NAPA had the right switch. |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 8:37 pm: | |
It is probably not he brake light switch. Ignition key, if you have one, needs to be on for the brake light switch to work on my 81 Le Mirage. Try the relays.
Prevost will talk to you and help you. Ask them.
Steve Fessenden |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 9:53 pm: | |
Hello LA Bryan.
When you find the culprit, replace the offending switch or relay.
It'll just stick or whatever again, and maybe not when you want it to...
Money well spent on making your coach reliable!
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
Jayrjay
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 10:55 pm: | |
With so much input concerning your situation, would you please give us a follow-up when you get it fixed? We would appreciate knowing what the final disposition was. ...JJ |
Jim Stewart (H3jim)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 10:44 am: | |
re: brake lights come on with Jake.
My 1995 Prevost has this feature, and it is powered by a relay. The Prevost service manager said that many of his conversion clients pull that relay. When they are caravaning, having the brake lights come on with the Jake is irrtating to a fellow bus nut behind you. Kind of like crying wolf, then when you do apply the service brakes, there is no warning that you are really stopping.
I have thought that when I have the time, I may put a separate red light on the rear that will come on with the Jake, and use the full bank of brake lights only for braking. |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:02 am: | |
Jim Stewart wrote "I have thought that when I have the time, I may put a separate red light on the rear that will come on with the Jake, and use the full bank of brake lights only for braking."
Suggest you try what a lot of transit companies are doing: two 3" diameter round yellow LED turn signal lamps, mounted on each side of the center rear "cyclops" brake lamp. These lamps come on and flash alternately whenever the driver releases the throttle to slow down, w/o using the brakes. They stop flashing when the brake lights are activated. Could easily be wired into the Jake circuit to come on w/ the Jakes.
HTH,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
Jim Stewart (H3jim)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 8:54 pm: | |
Good idea, but I was thinking red, and not flashing, but perhaps 2 on either side of the cyclops woulod be good. I'm not sure if there is any law against having two stop light systems like that though. The jake would just be on whenever my foot is off the throttle, and stay on when I applied the brakes since I only use one foot and its either on the throttle or the brake. |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:08 pm: | |
Sounds like a good idea but the flash rate for these lights on transits is too fast, too urgent, to carry the message that I just have my Jakes on on an interstate highway. maybe slow down the flash rate and have them flash together. Transit buses have a special need for slow down signals. |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:52 pm: | |
Jim - Remember that the majority of drivers will have absolutely NO clue what those extra red lights are for, and will unconsciously, and, quite possibly, act inappropriately when they see them. And don't forget, you yourself commented about the "crying wolf" syndrome of having red lights coming on constantly.
Flashing amber lights on the rear, however, generally mean "pay attention, something's happening", and most drivers will wake up from their dazed state when they see them. Don't know how batty that would drive fellow caravaners.
Steve - Excellent comment about changing the flash rate to a slower one, trick would be finding the right rate. Wouldn't you think, tho, that if you had them both flashing together, they might be misconstrued to be "emergency flashers" (4-ways)??
RJ |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 10:18 pm: | |
Hmm... one burns out and you have a guy passing at a real
inappropriate time.
If the guy behind doesn't know a bus in front is slowing down
without seeing lights flash all over the place, he deserves to be
peeled off the bus bumper.
Oh... my opinion of cuz... |
BrianMCI
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 12:32 am: | |
I'm planning on using a 2"x5" yellow LED "strobe" in
the cyclops position...
The strobe mounts light a cab clearance light and has 5 seperate types of flashes
I chose yellow because most nob-emergency vehicles use yellow flashing lights ...and caution lights are yellow flashing also.
Brian |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 9:16 pm: | |
We use emergency flashers when going below 40 mph (up hill) on Interstate highways. I think it would mean nothing to 4 wheelers and truckers and buses would catch on. I envision a flash rate of 20 a minute or less to make it clear that it is not normal flashers. Flashing brake lights on and off seems an appropriate signal for using a device to slow you more than some following traffic may be able too. I do agree that it should not be the actual brake lights and should not be as bright as the brake lights. Amber does mean pay attention, an unneccessary signal to most following drivers. I would prefer see a red signal for any slowing and braking. |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 9:47 pm: | |
Since you guys are trying to think of a way to show slowing from the Jake application, why not use an LED light that spells "Jakes On" or "Engine brake on" in big letters?
I can see that it would be easier to get ticketed in areas that forbid their use, however.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 11:41 pm: | |
anytime you go slower than the trafic flow by 10 mph,your flashers need to be on...going uphill or downhill,or on leval ground |
Jtng
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 11:45 pm: | |
whatchu smokin' ? |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 11:17 am: | |
grow up |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 11:18 am: | |
Why? |
Jim-Bob (Pd41044039)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 11:48 am: | |
Dogs, I have driven the last (and all) 40,000 miles in our bus at at 15-20 miles slower than the traffic flow here on the East Coast. That's because we travel at 65-70 mph but all the 4 wheelers go 80-90 mph consistantly. Since our bus tops out at 73, we can't hope to keep up. So we just get in the right lane & set the cruise at 65 (we used to go 60 when we first got the bus). All of the Beemers, Hondas, Acuras, SUVs etc fly by so fast they're a blur. Some honk & give us the finger even though there are 2 or 3 lanes on the road!
I use flashers if I am driving slower than the minimum speed (40MPH on the Interstate here).
Jim-Bob |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 8:56 pm: | |
Tom-
I was about to suggest a flashing light that said "Jake Off" - "Jake Off",
until I thought about the guy following for the past 100 miles..... and
the blisters..... |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 9:13 pm: | |
jim bob...
just imagine...you are going 70....& a giant bus with some ol' fart that won't turn on his flashers till 40 mph is suddenly in front of you |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 10:01 pm: | |
Shouldn't be drivin' faster than you can see.
Same jerks are found upside-down in the median on rainy nights. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 10:32 pm: | |
Let me rephrase that:
Maybe the bus isn't "suddenly in front" of the clown...
Maybe the clown is suddenly behind the bus.
Kinda' like that train that hits the car... Like it leaves the
tracks to go chase it? |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 6:48 am: | |
yeah....the 4-wheelers are putting on make-up...changeing diapers...talking....not realy paying attention...that's why ya' use flashers...to get their attention...that there is something not going as fast ahead |
Jim-Bob (Pd41044039)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 7:24 am: | |
So I have decided to follow 2Dog's advice. I'm headed out to the bus to rewire the flashers to run off the ignition circuit. That way they'll be on anytime the engine is running. That should do the trick.
Jim-Bob |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 7:27 am: | |
know what you mean about them damn yankies .... |
Greg Roberts (Gregeagle20)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 8:56 am: | |
Two Dogs advice sounds good to me too so I am going to incorporate the flashers into the slower part of the hill climbs at least. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 9:28 am: | |
Gee.... Remember when marker lights were all that were needed...
.....I should add one of those big convex mirrors to the rear, and
maybe a strobe light to the roof...
......Paint the bus a bright yellow.....
.... two chase vehicles, one in front and one behind, to warn motorists.....
Thanks to sanity, all that's required on the back of my bus/RV to
drive down the road the same as any other normal vehicle, are
the standard marker, brake, and turn lights.
I'm not responsible for another driver's stupidity, and I wouldn't
waste my time or money taking on that responsibility.
Ahhhh-hem... dos is, my opinion. |
niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 3:31 pm: | |
Reminds me of this true story - We are transporting a home down interestate 75 with the following conditions - 16ft wide, 15 ft high, 105 feet long, red flagged perimeter, amber high intensity flashers at the corners, huge wide load signs front and rear, front and rear pilot/escort/flag vehicles w/ the aforementioned lights,signs,flags,etc., on a clear day - I get a call that there had been an accident - found a hole approximately 4 to 5 feet up made by a car - when asked , what happened? , the lady driving the car that hit it said "I DIDN'T SEE IT" - just goes to show you can't plan for idiots. |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 5:16 pm: | |
yep...was working on an automatic door at K-mart years ago...had the area roped off,,signs posted,I was up on a ladder,drilling the header,lowered the drill & drilled a hole in this guys back that had climbed over the rope |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 5:20 pm: | |
Hey, JohnTNG said:
"I'm not responsible for another driver's stupidity, and I wouldn't
waste my time or money taking on that responsibility.
Ahhhh-hem... dos is, my opinion."
I, too, have an opinion - that each of us is equally qualified to become the victim of vehicular sodomy any time we enter the roadway and especially on grades.
Ya makes your choice and pay your price!
Onward and Upward
Moi |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 5:28 pm: | |
jtng doesn't want to learn anything...just wants to whine |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 7:23 pm: | |
JtnG, remember that flimsy rear bumper of yours is only 1" from the pulley. Bet the grief/hassle/aggravation/$$$ would be more painful to you than the insurance company. |
Greg Roberts (Gregeagle20)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 9:16 pm: | |
John the New Guy Said:
"I'm not responsible for another driver's stupidity, and I wouldn't
waste my time or money taking on that responsibility.
Ahhhh-hem... dos is, my opinion."
I say:
Ever heard of driving defensively?
Not sure who first said this:
The life you save might be your own. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 11:28 pm: | |
How about putting a flashing billboard on the back of your bus
that says:
"This bus may be going slower than you are".
The term "driving defensively" had never been intended to
include what's going on behind you as you propel forward.
The driver behind you should be driving defensively and
attempt to avoid collision with whatever's moving slowly
in front. You should drive defensively and avoid colliding
with that slow motorist that's just pulled out in front of you.
If you are stopped at a light and a car rams you from behind,
there is absolutely no "defensive driving" technique that can
possible be applied for you; the responsibility lies at the
feet of the driver that's hit you from behind.
The lights that are required by law to be on your vehicle, are
all that should be on your vehicle. Some states will fine you
for using a flashing light, if using it is not applicable to the laws
regarding that use in that state. The color of that light, may
also be of consequence.
With all the hub-bub of what laws pertain to bus conversions,
why is the use of extra signaling lights taken so lightly? Why
open yourself to more problems by placing attention getting
items that are not required, and give a reason to be stopped
and inspected?
A bus, truck, or large RV slowing down or moving slow -
up or down grade - is not a major, unusual event. |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 11:50 pm: | |
True, John, but unfortunately neither are the drunks, druggies, incapacitated and ect.,
Technically you're right, but being right doesn't do much to dissuade or alert those mentioned above.
Technically, you don't have to do anything extra, but here's where the trade offs come into play.
If your time is worth more than about $.38 per hour, it seems reasonable that the expense related to the costs of being VS'd, gives a good return on investment (ROI) if it prevents one out of 100 possible V.S. accidents.
This is what I had in mind when I said above, you takes your choice and pays your price.
From the tenor of the other posts, I feel each understood your argument and maybe agreed with the sentiment, however, practicality occasionally rears its ugly visage, as reflected by those very posts. I'll replace a few bulbs and bear up with the smirk of passing Lexus drivers just to avoid that 1 in a 100.
Onward and Upward
Marc Bourget. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 12:27 am: | |
Marc-
Aside from the legal issues I pointed out.....
There's a psychological issue of the guy behind you getting
tired of seeing a strobe light flashing every damned time the
bus's Jake brakes engage, and ignoring all of what any of your
vehicle lights do, whenever they decide to do it.
That equates to a more dangerous situation. It's like driving
behind that 100 year old Floridian that's had his left turn
signal on since he left Michigan thirty years ago.. Sooner or
later, someone's going to pass on his left at the wrong time.
Just another opinion........... |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 12:58 am: | |
"The term "driving defensively" had never been intended to include what's going on behind you as you propel forward."
John, you must have great drivers where you are. I watch behind be and have had to run through an empty intersection on a red light to avoid being hit at high speed from behind by a driver who believed yellow lights, when you are half a block from the light, were only a challenge to be overcome with the accelerator.
I have also had to run off the road at a flagman to protect myself from a sleeping driver running up behind at 70MPH. The new position still totaled my car but not me because I was not slammed into the vehicle ahead, but btween him and a railing, softening the deceleration imensely .
Of course that is in cars. In the bus, I cannot maneuver like that and the drivers behind are usually much more cautious when the vehicle ahead is 10 times their size.
Maybe we are better off without any special Jake signal, but if someone wants to use one, it should convey a non urgent message. |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 2:54 am: | |
A jake flasher might/would be so rare that the uniqueness of it may work to wake most any idiot out of their stupor! |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 3:12 pm: | |
Check out the new thread: "Flasher use" on this board. . . |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 9:14 pm: | |
LABryan-
What was the fix ? |