| Author | Message | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Rating: N/A |
Since the stainless vs. plastic issue brought up 'seeing' the level in your tanks,here goes. What are the good reliable options to indicate tank level? 1 - Same for each tank & simple is better (this will increase my chance of understanding it and fixing it if needed). 2 - I really do not want to have to go outside (to check my tanks,that is). 3 - I would rather not look at the stuff in my tank (sometimes ignorance is bliss). 4 - If ignorance is bliss, then why aren't I more blissful? As always, thanks for your help Kyle Merry Christmas Happy Hollidays & Baaah..... Humbug (I think I included everyone) | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A |
I think I will use a "Sender" unit, like a gastank, but Probably have to do things to make it more resistant to corrosion, at least for the Black Tank. The idea of electrodes freaks me out. Unless this thread provides beter ideas. Gary (Feeling very "Unblissed" today) | ||
| david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A |
Poor man's tank monitor I thread tapped a hole near the bottom of my gray tanks and ran a clear plastic line vertically that is higher than the top of the tank. The upper end of this line is tapped into my sewer vent lines. The water seeks a static level. I marked it at 5 gallon intervals with a sharpie pen. I installed this 2 years ago and though it does get moldy looking on the inside, I can still tell what my water level is in my tanks. The whole setup costs me about $10 for two tanks. David | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
Rating: N/A |
Kyle, using a dip tube that goes inside the tank works well with either a pressure switch that gives a closed circuit giving a light on the dash for high level, when using a dip tube bring the tube to within 1 or 2 inches (your choice)of the tank bottom, also cut the bottom of the dip tube at a 45 degee angle, this serves two purposes, steadys the reading and helps prevent pluggage. Dip tubes have a problem of plugging, the way to help prevent this is to use a air purge or bubbler (same thing) at low pressure the air keeps the dip tube clean, a good cheap source of lower pressure air is a fish tank blower, to set the level, using inches of water as a good measurement unit, there are others but this is probably the easiest. Other units of measurement may give better resolution but inches of water is pretty standard. Measuring the dip tube length gives you the level. A very cheap differential pressure transmitter can be used to send a signal to the dash or control panel instrument that gives you the reading, the key to accuracy is the fish tank blower, it doesn't take much air, more air increases back pressure which gives error readings, this all can be done very cheaply, there is a company called Transcat 1-800-828-1470, call and ask them for a catalogue, companies love to send them out......lol......there are tons of new instruments out there that are new and cheap, in the old days making the instrument work was the problem not the application. If you have anymore questions let me know i can draw this up for you. | ||
| Jim Stewart (H3jim)
Rating: N/A |
I went with the Garnet technologies units (advertised in MAK). They stick on the outside of plastic tanks, will never clog and are very accurate. The model I bought is accurate to the nearest 1/4 inch which equates to around a gallon in each of my tanks. The sending units should not be mounted within several inches of metal. The sending units can be cut in 1" increments for different tank heights. Very slick. Very reliable. Very accurate. and you can have gauges inside (and in the bays too) | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Rating: N/A |
There was a discussion on here quite a while back and the name and add. I copied for future reference. I haven't installed this system but it came highly recommended. Check the archives. www.catconproducts.com 817-921-2188 HTH Ed. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Rating: N/A |
Hi guys, Thanks for the input. I like the 'bubbler' tube idea (fewer moving parts and no electrical). I am thinking of having the low pressure air source (bus air or from the air bag behind the steering wheel) connected to a tee fitting with one side going to a manometer tube filled with a non staining liquid and the other side going to the holding tank. This would allow placement of the manometer in the most convenient location. I am concerned that the crud in the tank will cause problems with any moving linkage or float. If the tube gets plugged, a blast of air would usually remove the obstruction. What 'cha think? | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
I've gone three years now without any measuring devices and it works just fine for me. I have three 50 gallon water storage tanks mounted inside under the bed. It's a snap to see who is full or empty with a flashlight. It makes pretty good sense that when fifty gallons of water is not in the storage tank, it's in the black and grey tanks. And it turns out that usage is about equal. Well, a little more is usually in the grey due to showers... I have two 35 gallon waste tanks, one for black and one for grey. Then beyond that I have a 100 gallon "combo" tank that is physically lower than either of the two 35's. valving is set up so I can drain either one of the 35's into the 100 at any time. So here's how it usually goes: I go to the boonies with 150 gallons of water. After a few days of heavy use, the grey tank fills up, and I find this out becuase the in most cases one of the 50 gallon supply tanks gets empty, or in worst-case situations when I havn't paid attention, the shower stops draining. So I dump the grey tank into the 100 with the valve and there I am. At the same time I usually dump the black tank into the 100 as well, so I'm starting from the beginning again with the two 35's. The bottom line is that even with pee taken into consideration, there's a little more storage in the waste tanks than there is in the water tanks, so it's a pretty easy stretch of the imagination to see that I can never overflow the sewage system no matter what I do. And I never have. This has worked well for three years as I said. I did buy an electronic monitor system but so far have seen little reason to install it, so it sits under a seat in it's box. I doubt I'll ever out it in because my simple scheme above is brainless, foolproof, and hassle free! Drawing of the system: http://www.heartmagic.com/zzPOOplumbing.jpg . . . . . | ||
| Jack Watson (Jck5b)
Rating: N/A |
Kyle, I have 120gal S/S FW,a 60gal BW tank,& 60gal GW tank (GW tank on top of BW tank, can flush out BW tank using the GW. The baffels broke in the FW tank and started leaking,I had to remove and have it re-welded (tanks were not constructed of the correct compatable s/s & welding materials). Anyway if it happens again I'll replace them with heavy duty plastic ones. I have a monitoring system that uses the rubber insulated sensors that are installed by drilling holes into the s/s tanks. The FW tanks monitor works good but the BW & GW tanks DO NOT WORK!(they did for a couple of months)I think the sensors get corroded or contaminated with paper, etc and unless you have a good tank clean out system you will never get them to work properly. I can tell when my GW tank is full when you start smelling an awful odor and look in your shower and see your slippers floating in the shower floor)LOL I don't recommend this system! I would suggest using heavy plastic tanks for an easier installation and for a more reliable monitoring system. Good luck, Jack | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A |
As far as using a gas tank type of sender, Westburg Instruments told me that they will not make a gas tank type capacative sender for a water tank or holding tank. They have already tried it and had bad luck with corrosion and failure. There is really no nead to have a continuous readout, so the bubbler can be a squeeze bulb and you can skip one more mechanism. The stick on capacative system some have used also sounds great for plastic tanks. | ||
| H3 (Ace)
Rating: N/A |
Here's a thought regarding senders that corrode. How about having one coated with Teflon? Nothing sticks to it and it doesn't corrode! I can have it done locally and pretty cheap too, but again...what do I know? Ace | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
I believe in the terminal type guages, (as compared with the capacitance type) the sender terminals require the conduction of electricity from/thru the tank contents to "trigger or signal" the guage or circuit that would operate a light that indicates depth. Coating it with teflon would prevent electrical conduction and cause it to appear as if it were coated with something from the tank. Furthermore he sayeth not! | ||
| bobm Rating: N/A |
I use air bubble tubes with a manometer to measure fuel level in my main tank, my generator tank and the oil in the generator sump. simple design works fine and very accurate | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
(I use air bubble tubes with a manometer to measure fuel level in my main tank, my generator tank and the oil in the generator sump. simple design works fine and very accurate) Is this some thing you can buy ? Or do you have to build it? And what is it? What does it look like? Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oergon | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Brian, I'm guessing if you had immersed tubes in each tank you could pick up one of those digital blood pressure guages and cut off the hose just before the cuff. Slip the hose over the tube that goes into the tank you wish to test and pump till you get a maximum reading on the guage. To calibrate the readings, you could measure cubic volume of the tank (cu in/231 = gallons) then its just a matter of proportion. 1/2 the pressure reading or "head" of a full tank (what ever it was) would be 1/2 full (or empty - depending on your mental state! LOL!) You could do the math and have a quick chart (or if you really wanted to be fancy - a graph) next to each tank. I think I'd rig some sort of an equivalent to an accumulator so the bacteria from a Black/Grey or fuel tank could never contaminate my fresh water. But, if I have translucent fresh tanks, I don't need this method of checking volume anyway! Onward and Upward Marc Bourget | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh)
Rating: N/A |
I've used the Catconproducts system for 3 years and it has performed perfectly. If you want the best system that $200 can buy, this is the one. Check it out at www.catconproducts.com . It will speak to you when the tanks reach the 3/4 and 7/8 marks. Idiot-proof and never needs cleaning and never corrodes or plugs. 100% reliable. Jim | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
Rating: N/A |
And...another point of view (insanity?) is to mount all the water, gray and black tanks INSIDE the bus overtop the rear wheel wells. My '74 Crown Super Coach 40-foot 10-wheeler ex-schoolie (whew!) sinply does not have the underneath storage area/bins to mount them in the convention fashion. Soooosss....going to be unconventional. Since the gray and black stuff tanks will be inside the living compartment inside the planned two (2) rear closets, a lack of leaks and odors is pretty important. Therefore the plan is to have zero openings in the tanks other than the tops. Drip tray containment is also planned. Right now the plan is to use surplus 55 gallon plastic water barrels as the actual tanks. Available and inexpensive. (read that $cheap$!) Four (4) on each side. This may result in 200 gallons of water, 100 gallons of gray and 100 gallons of black holding capacity. Boondocking plans. The gage method of determining fluid level will be the old mark one eyeball method with zero wiring, electricity, tubes, pipes, etc.. The planned plastic barrels are translucent enought to see how much stuff is inside. That plus just rapping on the barrel. The barrels even have convenient gallon level marks on the sides. The barrels will be mounted upright on very heavy mounts that tie down into the main frame rails. Lots of weight here. Draining the tanks will employ the syphon method which has... ...been repeatedly tested with 100% success. We also employed test-to-destruction tests the actual strength of the barrels by rolling them off the roof in various stages of capacity, both crashing on their sides and ends. No problemo. Anyway, just another crazy way of doing things with little or no money, gadgets or common sense. Sooos far, soosss good. Are we having fun yet? He he he. CROWNS FOREVER, Merry Christmas and blah, blah, blah.  | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Henry, You could get some pretty secure fittings in the bottom of the tanks, if properly welded. I used the tough, Polyethelyene barrels when mixing pigment into my plastic resins. They'd work great. You wouldn't have to go the siphon route. Sure you have considered the advantages of Gumpydog's fabrication technique thoroughly? Had a Crown in the yard next to mine for 1-1/2 years, Surely there's places you could tuck tanks witout using up alot of inside room! Onward and Upward | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A |
There is a type of capacative sender that is for fuel tanks that Westberg Instruments found to be unreliable for water systems. That is the tube type capacative system where the sensor is imersed in the tank. It is fantastic and unbelievably accurate for fuel but not good for water. The capacative system I suggested might be good is the type that uses metal tape on the outside of the tank. The system Jim Ashworth mentioned above uses pressure transducers and should be very reliable. It does need electronics to interpret the transducer output. So does a capacitive system. A bubbler system is completely mechanical and idiot proof. Take your pick. If I used the bubbler system, I would use one with a mechanical guage. Not sense adding electronics to a system that simple. | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
Rating: N/A |
Capacitance level sensing probes, tend to coat with what ever you immerse them in, water (drinking) being an exception. When they become coated they are not reliable, a factory rep one time accidently admitted that capacitance probes that become coated could not see a rise in level as long as 20 minutes, which in the wrong applicatgion could cause a major problem costing cubic dollars. If you can purchase a measuring device for under $200's that sounds like a great deal, do whatever is comfortable for you, it definately isn't rocket science, and besides you know you like the cute little shiny gadgets.... | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
Rating: N/A |
Marc...there is some space underneath the frame, but the on-going problem is that there appears not to be enough. Seems Crown did not design their school buses with the idea of being possibly converted to RV's 30 years later. Well heck and phoeey! And..even if enough space could be found, it would still probably require custom shaped tanks of varous sizes... ...that would $cost$ more than I am willing to spend. The planned second factory 100 gallon fuel tank will take up whatever... ...large space remains just behind the rear wheels. Finally, the planned gen set and modified shortened exhaust system,... the planned (for now) sunken tub and large battery array finish things off nicely. I can not find any decent... ...remaining space to mount tanks I can not afford. Sossss.....the crazy notion of using plastic barrels INSIDE... ...the coach. Heaven help me if the black one splits open or gets shot. AUUUUGGGHHHHHHH!!!!! "Scotty...beam us up... NOW"!!! | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Henry, sleep on it awhile. Then get back to me! There's no problem so great or difficult that it cannot be solved by brute strength and ignorance! Onward and Upward Marc | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
Henry of CJ, I was kind of struck by the notion of putting a fuel tank after the rear axle. I can't think of a case where any kind of heavy vehicle is set up that way. I know that cars are. I was just wondering if there was a requirement that the fuel tanks were to be mounted between the axles and whether it would apply to a conversion, if there was such a requirement. Is this something that you have checked on? Thanks. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A |
Neither have I, come to think of it. wastewater yes, fuel, no. Gary | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Tom, you mean a requirement besides common sense? Actually propane, (understandable since it can cause SO MUCH MISCHIEF!!) is required to be installed between the axles. | ||
| R.C.Bishop
Rating: N/A |
Tom...my 110 gallon tank on the Crown I have is located directly behind the rear tandem, curb side. Been there for 40 years..... FWIW RCB "64 Crown Supercoach (hwc) | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Tom- Both motorhomes we've owned, had the main gas tank mounted behind the rear axle. Rear mounted engines and transaxles would make mounting a fuel tank in that area near impossible. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks, guys. That was what I wanted to know. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
Rating: N/A |
To answer Tom's question, seems Crown had at least two (2) different factory fuel tank locations. You had your choice. One was on the right side (passenger) just in front of the rear axle(s). The second was just behind the rear axle(s).. ...running transversly across the coach. I think the rear tank had both side filling options, but not sure here. With the rear tank locaton, one also had the option of another storage bin where the other tank would have been. Anyway, I have the 110 gallon (gross) tank mounted on the passenger side in front of the drivers. The second planned tank will/may be mounted in the optional second location--just behind the drivers. This will result in the planned 200 gallon total, with the gen set feeding off the rear tank. Hope this helps. CROWNS FOREVER!!! |