| Author |
Message |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 3:47 am: | |
I found this article while surfing the AmplePower site.
It relates some interesting detail describing the complexities of installing a S-60 in a coach formerly powered by a DD 2 stroke.
Keep in mind that there is alot more info in the DD Installation Manual mentioned in the article.
I'm not trying to scare anybody, but, at the same time, it isn't a project for the superficial personality!
http://www.rvtechstop.com/articles/dowdrmok.pdf
Onward and Upward |
Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 8:03 am: | |
$35,00-50,000 was "out of the Dowdles' budget" for a shell, but apparently there were no limitations on anything else! |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 8:21 am: | |
Once you're hooked, you're hooked!
I was mainly interested in exposing the complexity of a re-power project. It's actually more difficult than this, something clearly understood by Automotive Engineers and experts like Dave Gregory at So. Oregon Diesel. A quiet, unassuming guy, but never at a loss for answers when I've "bored in". Good Man!
Onward and Upward |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 9:37 am: | |
Marc, thanks for the great link. When I downloaded it, the article is chopped up, but by jumping around, I got most of the detail. Did you have the same problem?
As some of the folks on this board know, I am doing a Series 60 conversion in my ’85 Eagle. The conversion is complicated even further by the fact that I am using an AutoShift 10 speed truck transmission. The conversion is in the early stages and I am trying to document as much as I can on my bus project (see link below). I will try to post sources of some the hard to find items. This has been a big part of the challenge. For example, the data cable part of the overall cable pack is a rather special shielded twisted pair (with the transmission, there will be three of these cables). The wire that the AutoShift folks call out is available at $285 per 100 feet. I think I have located some surplus wire for much less than that.
Another major conversion item is reinforcing the frame for the added weight and length of the engine.
This project really calls my sanity into question. I have done a bunch of studying and gathering of manuals. I think it will all work, but I expect to have to jump some large hurdles. I probably would not have tackled this project if the 6V92 had not spit up.
I have seen many Series 60 and other four stroke engines in Eagles. It can be done, but it is not for the faint of heart as you point out.
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10
http://rvsafetysystems.com
Bus Project details: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm (updated 8/7/04) |
BrianMCI
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 9:39 am: | |
You know it's a scary proposition when it involves
scrounging up a deal on on a coach oil pan that saves you $200, but still costs you $1400!
When Mr. Dowdle found his 200k mi. Series 60... I wonder if he had been told that beyond what the engine cost he WOULD have to pay nearly 12 thousand dollars to have it installed and dialed in... Well, I just wonder what his expression would have been (I know what my expression would have been).
I'm pretty sure Mr. Dowdle now thinks repowering was a great idea, I mean, I'd surely be happy with swapping my 8-71 for an S-60... but I wonder if he would have done it knowing before-hand that it would cost nearly 18 thousand dollars to install a used motor?
Brian |
Phil Hendrix
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 11:01 am: | |
Marc, thanks for the info. It is intimidating as you read the article,(I also found to be hard to follow thoughts, but got the concept). My question would be, is the level of complexity tied to the ser.60 alone or to the issue with any 2-stroke/4-stroke conversion? If a guy was to choose another 4-stroke, other than size, does that eliminate considerable difficulty and expense? |
Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 11:19 am: | |
Are there any versions of "Autoshift Transmission" that will work with a non-electronic engine? I'd LOVE to stick on in my Crown... although a regular type of automatic doesn't appeal to me at all due to extra heat generated, less mileage, and fewer gears... |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 1:31 pm: | |
No, it downloaded fine to me, but I copied the header after I had "surfed" in.
Gary & Phil , the autoshift needs an "electronic" engine due to the need for "unloading" and RPM matching - same basic needs re the allison, also (but not exactly!)
Phil, I think the complexity is there for any of the 4 strokes with the autoshifts or the world trannys.
The extensive discussions I've had with Bob Sheaves and Dave Gregory go far beyond that referenced in the articles. Bob's expertise is with suspension and vehicle dynamics and his present position involves drive train design. But, back when he was with GM Military Vehicle Operations he was fully into the M-11/ CEE-2-MAT repower of the RTS from the DD 2-strokes.
He's got stories of how things "went wrong" from directions you'd never suspect. Many topics that I recall from my "57 Chevy" days, never were an issue, but they quickly can become so with the size and the forces we're dealing with here.
To be truthful, it may work anyway, but, personally, I don't want to be stuck someplace between Tucson and El Paso at midnight with a lot of (now smaller) metal pieces and oil on the ground.
[And you guys wonder why I hang tough about addressing behavior and bitch about "assets" being driven from this BB????? We as a whole lose! - at the same time, He'll still answer any of my questions!
Now, if I had only gotten Diesel Dave's private e-mail when I had the chance - he's sharp!]
Jim, what about ancillary shielding of your bundle? I haven't investigated this with Bob but I would think they're more worried about transient, outside inductance, not from the bundle itself. I'll check for you, at the same time, I'll pick up your surplus wire - if it isn't spoken for, already!]
Onward and Upward |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 4:06 pm: | |
Gary, there are two different versions of the “automated” Eaton transmissions: AutoShift and AutoSelect. The AutoSelect can be used with a mechanical engine. You can find more information at:
http://www.roadranger.com/csee/MungoBlobs/trdr0040-1293.pdf.
The roadranger site has all kinds of information and all of their manuals are posted for downloading!
I believe the wrecking yard in Denver has an AutoSelect, but no tower ($$$$).
Marc, the shielded twisted pair is indeed for outside source RF problems. I know of at least one person who made their own data cable by twisting two wires and wrapping tin foil around the twisted pair. In the cable pack termination instructions, they have specific terminations for the shield.
As I check on the wire, I will advise if my source has wire that will do the job. If you are going to Bussin 2005, look me up and I will talk to you about it.
Jim |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 4:10 pm: | |
Opps. Marc, forgot to ask you to take a close look at the text at the bottom of column one, page four and see if the last paragraph is messed up. If it is, you will find several more problems with the text. If it is not messed up, then I will try to download again.
Jim |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 6:33 pm: | |
Jim, all seems fine with the text!
I'll be driving into Arcadia on the 31st for the Catfish feed! See you there.
Marc |
Ray Lala (Rayshound)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 7:23 pm: | |
As you all know I've been installing a S-60 in a mci-8. I haven't run into the same problems as yet. I have a part number to give if needed that a busnut had passed on to me for the oil pan. $585. retail from Stewart & Stevenson. If I had a discount it would be less. This does not include the suck tube. The S-60 is actually 4" shorter in height than the 8v-71, its on the dd bbs. The S-60 is 9" longer. Eigther modifing the length or the drive line is required if you donot stretch. I choose to stretch. The DDEC3 uses 3 industry standard serial data links. SAE standard J1587 provides two way communications for the diagnostic equipt & vehicle displays. J1922 & J1939 provide control data to vehicle systems such as transmission etc. I purchased an instrument cluster that gets everything from a twisted pair. I guess there is lots to do but I enjoy pain! Really I this is my only buss, I want it dependable and to have the power and some economany. Now if I could just learn how to spell! Ray |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 24, 2004 - 11:10 am: | |
Ray, I would like to have that pan number. You can either post (more people benefit) or send to me at:
jim at rvsafetysystems period com
Marc, I look forward to putting a face to a name. Our motorhome (unfortunatedly the Eagle is here at our house needing a lot of work) will be in the "vending" area in front of the building. I will have on a shirt with the company logo. You can also identify me by the fact that I have my head on upside down (you will see what I mean when we meet <grin>)
We got the motorhome down to Jack Conrad's place and flew home for the holidays. We just missed all of the terrible weather in IN and OH. We fly back on the 27th and will be at the rally for the full schedule. I will be doing a seminar and Pat will be doing a craft type (stamping) session for the Gals.
We are really looking forward to meeting some of the "eastern" bus folks!
Jim |
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