| Author |
Message |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 5:05 pm: | |
Well Twodogs,
We came up to your home ground and there was snow all over the place, but I heard you got snow down in the valley, too.
We drove up to Pampa TX from Pleasanton on Friday. Never was above 28 from Boerne to the panhandle. I had the radiator 2/3 covered on the Eagle and it could barely make 170 on the temp gauge. We had to use the Webasto SJ heat exchanger all the way up.
In fiddling with it I noticed it would knock the engine temp down about 6 degrees on the gauge when the system was scavenging heat from the engine to heat the coach.
Where we parked it got down to 15 Friday night and the furnace ran most of the night to keep the lounge temperature at about 67. It was -2 on Thursday. I wish we could have been here then just to see what the Webasto could really do. The temp in my mechanical bay never dipped below 59 so no worry about freezing down below.
It's been a great trip and hopefully will return home Tues. No bus problems. It's nice when things go right.
Merry Christmas
David Anderson |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 5:53 pm: | |
Yeah....minus two in Amarillo,is like 30 below anywhere else...terrible place in the winter....snow does not melt in Amarillo...it wears out...take care of that pretty Eagle... |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 7:45 pm: | |
Sounds like the problem I had with mine, until I decided to put in new thermostats. Found that it did not even HAVE thermostats! Darned thing ran like it had been overhauled when I put thermostats in it and got it up to temp. Diesels do NOT like to run cold. One of them remote thermo sensors sure help figure it out. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 7:59 pm: | |
I had a larger fan installed on my Eagle and the fan speed control removed when I was having overheating problems.
Then I got to WV in the winter and with the radiator completely covered with a throw rug I could not get the temperature above about 140. Sure did appreciate the Webasto then. It did help to keep the engine warm as well as the bus.
Richard |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 10:12 am: | |
kind of a long story...but,when I was driveing big trucks...I had a 24"x 24" piece of paneling that I would put in front of the radiator at nite so the heater inside the truck would work...one time,while I was in for a 'B' service ,they removed my paneling,that I kept stored behind the drivers seat...& they could not understand WHY I was pissed...the temp. inside the truck would only get a few degrees above what it was outside..(hint)..I cut it in half,used duct tape for a hinge,it stored as a 12"x 24" & then folded out to 24x24 |
Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 12:46 pm: | |
Growing up in the Denver CO area I remember when it got cold all the school buses had a vinyl cover over the front grill. We had a new driver one year and he never put it on and we froze for a few weeks until another driver told him to install it. Oh the good old days. |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 10:33 pm: | |
Hey Don,
Tell me about your new t-stats. I put 2 new 170 degree t-stats in my Eagle about 18 months ago. Logic tells me that the gauge should peg at 170 in this cold weather I'm driving in, but it never got off 160 unless I was in a hard climb.
As we came back south and the ambient temps rose I had to remove my covers from the radiator as things began to heat up. After removing them the temp never came off 160. That's too cool for the engine, in my opinion.
Did you replace yours with 180's? I'm thinking about doing that. Mine had 170's in it when I bought the new ones. 180's shouldn't make it run any hotter in the summer. They will be full open most of the time, anyway.
We had a good trip back home, but the wind was blowing like crazy. There was an 18 wheeler jackknifed south of Paducah TX on US 83. I think he got blown off the pavement and tried to return when he got into trouble.
I fought my Eagle all the way to San Antonio before the wind finally slowed.
Thanks,
David |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 5:08 am: | |
83 is a neat road.....
told you about the wind
my Eagle runs 182 on flat surface 184 on a pull |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 10:05 am: | |
Been too long, cannot recall exactly. I put in what the book said for a 4905. I think 170 is definitely too cold. You will get a lot of uninformed advice on that, claiming that "cold" thermostats are better, cause you are further from overheating. That is bull, diesels, especially two strokes badly need to run at their designed operating temp. Mine showed about 190 on the dash instrument as I recall, but there is a range on the thermostats too, start open, full open etc.
I would highly advise one of them temp guns to see what is going on. You can tell exactly when they start to open and go to full open with them, then you are not chasing some instrument cluster problems. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 10:23 am: | |
David, you really need to block the outside of the radiator with a piece of cardboard, or a small throw rug. The suction of the fan will hold it in place. Leave it blocked until the temperature starts climbing above the 180 degree mark. |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 10:57 am: | |
I need to talk Don into comeing up there & seeing your bus AND that car that the tire man has...do you think it BELONGS to the tire man ??? |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 8:51 pm: | |
I don't know who owns the thing. I haven't seen it driving around Pleasanton in several years. It does look cool though, and the high lift doors look really neat.
Richard,
I have been blocking the radiator to get the temp up, but that should be unnecessary if the T-stat works properly. If it is a 170 degree t-stat, then the water at the head should stay 170 while under way and crack open as needed when the temp rises. Unless, there is so much cold air around the engine that it actually is being cooled by the air around it. If that be the case then the coolant could be less than 170 with the t-stat closed. Seems unlikely, however.
I'm kind of leaning to install 180's. They were $20 each at Napa and take about 1.5 hours to install. Kind of messy because you have to drain out some of the radiator and expansion tank below the static level of the t-stat plumbing.
David |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 10:16 pm: | |
good move David....180 is what I'd want |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 10:34 am: | |
You can put in 200's if you want, but it won't help any. If the engine is not generating enough heat to get up to 180 degrees, then you will run cold. I know. In 30 degree weather and driving 55-60 mph, my Eagle would never get over about 140. It would not matter what the thermostat rating was. It never got hot enough to open the thermostat. I generally had to get from WV down to SC before I could take the throw rug off my radiator. Believe me, it works.
You should have 180 thermostats, but it won't help your current problem of running too cold.
Richard |
TWO DOGS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 11:39 am: | |
I had a volvo back in '58 that had a 'shade' mounted upside down in front of the radiator,had a cable going inside for adjustments |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 9:55 pm: | |
Richard,
I have a question. If the engine doesn't generate enough heat to open the t-stat, no water is running through the radiator, how does throwing a rug over the radiator help at all?
Thanks,
David |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 11:25 pm: | |
Well David, it keeps the fan from blowing cold air across the engine, hoses etc, and cooling the engine from that airflow. In the old days buses used radiator shutters for that purpose, so it must have been of some benefit. On my GMC, they were smarter, the fan ONLY ran when the temp requested it (if the torus drive fan was selected}. This makes a BIG difference on the big trucks with their nose headed into the wind all the time.
Although commonly done, I recall the manual for my 425hp Cat cautioning operators NOT to restrict this air flow with "winter fronts". Most have a hole in the center, so that airflow could hit the Horton fan thermostat, again the fan ONLY ran when the engine temp requested it. |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 12:32 am: | |
Okie Dokey,
That makes sense. If it is so cold outside that the engine is being supercooled by the ambient air blowing over the block, then closing the radiator opening makes sense. Of course, the main coolant lines downstream the t-stats shouldn't matter as there should be no water flowing through them if the t-stat is closed.
On my trip my oil temp didn't have any difficulty reaching regular temps. It stayed between 190 and 230 thoughout.
The tranny was below normal at 145~150. Usually runs 170
Since I have a direct drive, clutchless fan which always spins full bore at any given engine rpm, no sensors are affected by covering the radiator.
David |
jimmci9 #2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 7:48 am: | |
1 thing you're all forgetting is that water circulates all the time inside the engine, whether or not the t-stats are open or not... its called by-pass.. there is a bypass line, that allows coolant to circulate to the oil coolers, and thru the heads..if it didn't have this you'd superheat 1 part of your engine...also depending on how the surge tank is plumbed, you may actually be circulating coolant to the radiator, and not realalizing that it... |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 8:37 am: | |
David, my problem got much worse when I had the thermostatically controlled fan removed and a larger fan with direct drive installed. I did this to try and solve my summer overheating problem.
Even with the rug covering the radiator, the temperature rarely got up to 180 unless I was on a hard pull.
Richard |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 6:41 pm: | |
Thanks Jim and Richard,
That all makes sense. It seems keeping the radiator opening buttoned up disallows air around the engine, letting the whole area heat up a bit. I had a tough time getting a lot of heat for the Webasto going down the road. I can tell the difference in heat output from 180 degree coolant and 160.
I never turned on the furnace like you Richard. With the driver defroster and heater it was warm enough in the coach. However, my son made the comment that this was the first time ever it felt cold in the bedroom without the AC running while traveling down the road.
26 degrees and 70mph makes things pretty cold.
David |