| Author | Message | ||
| Gus Haag (Mrbus)
Rating: N/A |
While sitting here waiting for my cancer treatment to kick in, I usually have about 45 minutes to read, so today I am reading a manual published by Detroit Diesel. This is entitled "Detroit Diesel Oweners and operators manual. Publication # SE 211 80, dated June 1979. From the page titled Lubricating oil Recommendations. 15W-40 Multigrade Lube Oil: To accomplish engine starting in cold weather conditions, Detroit Diesel approves the use of new generation 15W-40 oil, provided the following ash limits, zinc requirements. oil performance levels and conditions are met. 1. The sulfated ash (ASTM-D 874) content of the oil shall not exceed 1.000% by weight, except lubricants that contain only barium detergent dispersant salts where 1.5% by weight is allowed. 2. The oil shall meet the performance requirements shown in API service classifications CD/SE. 3. The zinc content (zinc diorganodithioposphate) of all the lubricaants recommended for use in Detroit Diesel engines shall be a minimun of 0.07% by weight. However the Zinc requirement is waived where EMD lubricants are used. 4. Evidence of satisfactory performance in Detroit Diesel engines has been demonstrated by the oil supplier. SAE/40 and SAE-30 Single weight oils are still approved if they meet the 1.0000% maximum sulfated ash limit, the 0.07% by weight minimum zinc content and any one of the following API service classifications. CB (MIL-L-2104A Supplement) CC (MIL-L-2104B) CD/SC (MIL-2104C) CD (MIL-L-45199B Series 3) CC/SE (MIL-L-46152) What this really means is that all of those who are always referring to "Da Book" need to read all the books. I have always used straight weight 30 & 40 wt. but for those who think they have damaged their engines by using Multigrade can relax. I would have scanned this page, but since I am here in the clinic with my LapTop, I just typed what was printed, besides that I have nothing better to do while waiting.  Gus Haag | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
The '84 manual claims 30-40 weight HD oil is the one to use for engine, blower gearbox and power steering. | ||
| TWO DOGS Rating: N/A |
Gus...there have been a million arguements about this...I use 15/40 Rotella T....available at EVERY truckstop(and Wal-Mart)....never have had a problem,I run it in everything I have...27 vehicles...good luck on your treatments , let me know if you need anything,I'd still like to buy that rabbit | ||
| BrianMCI Rating: N/A |
As I mentioned in another thread the petrolium industry is improving the quality of motor oils continually... It doesn't seem all that long ago to me that 30W was in the vast majority of automobile engines. AND, about 10 years ago, our lube rack was switched from using 30W for our HD diesel engines to 10W-40 and now I believe it's 15W-50... Nothing stays static, and while Da Book is THE GOSPEL for most things, if it is more than even a few years old, when it comes to petrolium products, it's outdated. It won't hurt you to use what the book calls for, (though if it's old enough you might find oil to those specifications stopped being made years ago...)but I'll just bet that DD, or any big builder, has an updated reccomendations list for the fluids that go in even their oldest products. Brian | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A |
Gus - Thanks for sharing. You realize, of course, that that info is 26 years old at this point. . . and I agree with Brian that the petroleum industry is constantly improving their product (at our expense, of course!!) For the latest recommendations from Detroit regarding oil for their engines, download and print out this file. It covers both two and four stroke models: http://www.detroitdiesel.com/public/technicianguides/7se270.pdf This publication does not apply to Two Dogs, however, as he already knows what's best for his engine. Oh, and Gus, get well guy!! Lots of cancer survivors out there nowdays. . . RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| TWO DOGS Rating: N/A |
R.J. you ol' fart...if you are so smart why ain't you rich | ||
| TWO DOGS Rating: N/A |
my book also says 100,000 for an oil change...stupid people!!!..must be the same stupid people that make Ca. laws.... | ||
| Gus Haag (Mrbus)
Rating: N/A |
Didn't want to start a big discussion, just wanted to eliminate some of the anxieties that some seem to be feeling about doing damage to their engines when someone put multigrade oil in it. I think the key word is that Detroit Diesel Approves, Not Recommends the usage of multigrade. I also stated that I have always used straight weights, and will continue to do so. Thanks RJ, I am doing my utmost to beat this thing again. This is the third go around for me. Gus | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Did I read that pdf file right? Multigrade oil is for 4 stoke or extreme cold weather.... if used in a two stroke, it should be changed to 40w as soon as climate/temperature improves? | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
JTNG: You probby did read it right since that is the recommendation of DD in everything that I have read on the subject. I didn't read the pdf: tired of reading the obituary on this dead horse. | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
(yeah, I know Jimmy... I thought I'd give the mare another whack for the helluvit... gotta' keep the dudes on their toes.. Wuz kinda' redundant, ya'know..?) | ||
| Ron Walker (Prevost82)
Rating: N/A |
I live in the "Great White North" and Detroit Diesel sez to use straight 40 in all temps….no exceptions. We also all run Block heaters up here. Ron | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Good post Gus, you beat me to it. While there is no question and should be no arguement about what is recommended NOW, it is sort of interesting to see what DD has said over the 65 years of the DD 2 stroke life. I remember back when DD said to use multi vis, then changed to qualify its use, then to not using it. Even the straight weight recommendations have changed, my manuals for my 76 did not want 40 wt, I used the recommended 30 wt for a year before I changed. The point is, short term use of any oil works, and has worked during the years for long term too. Ten years from now, there will be those telling Two Dogs he can't use 15w40 in his cause it will ruin it right away, as he merrily cruises along still using it. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Dunno about "ruining an engine", Don... But I've been informed by DD experienced mechanics at two bus garages, that if I run multigrade, I will probably find leaks, blow-by and smoking engine. The guy I bought the bus from ran 10w40. It smoked, leaked and had oil all over the side of the engine from blow-by, until I changed to 40w. I still have a rear main leak, but the blow-by and smoke problem's been resolved. Ruined engine? Nawww.... I doubt that, but the rest? Yeah, I'm a believer. | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Well, perhaps they were worn engines, and allowed the blowby to be different between the two oils. I have had the opportunity to "educate" several about proper oil, and the multivis they were using did not cause any leaking or blowby, in fact it seemed to make no difference at all when they changed to st 40 wt. Where is Jim or Geoff, they have torn down lots of them, probably some used "wrong" oils. It is sure hard to convince someone that has used multivis for years that it is all bad. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
I ran 15-40 in my 6v92 for abt. 2 yrs. once. Even had an analysis on the 2nd change w/ it; nothing beyond the limits. However, I did notice an increase in oil consumption. I switched back to the 40w for that reason alone and noticed a reduction in consumption. When I bought the Neoplan w 8v92, some 4 stroke mechanic had filled it w/15-40. Burned nearly 2 gals in 6k mi. Changed to 40w--1 1/2 qt/2k. In comparing all the specs, I discoverd that multi viscosity can run to 50% additives, and commonly will run 30-35% additives, rather than oil, in 10-30, increasing as the viscosity spread increases. Therein may be the inherant danger of multi-grades. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Not necessarily "bad", but if straight 30 or 40 was used for years of miles, then a change is made to a combination oil of light/heavy weights, it may make a difference, especially if the engine's getting a lil' tired. I would have preferred to stay with a multi grade, since it's not only easier to find, but less expensive. When you're losing oil out of a bad seal, buying expensive straight 40 is a waste. In my case, the alternative is a oil soaked and smoking engine... I noted that the bus garage that inspected and serviced mine, had both the 40w and the combo. But they also ran a variety of bus makes. When they serviced and inspected mine, they used the 40 and explained why...... | ||
| T. (Bluegrass)
Rating: N/A |
John I will agree with what you have said wholeheartedly, My MCI-7 didn't use much oil I went through Illinois back through Ky. to Tennessee and then back to South Bend Ind.used just a little more than 2 quarts of oil, while In Indiana a friend talked me Into putting Schaffer synthetic 10w40 so when I did from Indiana to Vermilion Ohio I used just a little over 4 quarts, don't need to tell you how long It took me to go back to 40Wt Rotella T for the 2 stroke. Tony | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"To accomplish engine starting in cold weather conditions," Would be real interested in DD's idea of what TEMP is "cold weather conditions"? For 40 below in AK multigrade might be an OK choice , but once started , your running on flour thickiner.(oops "Viscosity enhancer) FAST FRED | ||
| jimmci9 #2 Rating: N/A |
jim is gonna pass on this arguement... he's been in the bottom of a pushboat rolling rod bearings, 2 cylinder packs, 1 head, an aftercooler core, and a turbo cartidge on a caterpillar 3412.... i'm goin to bed.... btw, jennie found her dog.... | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
Here is my experience, as Don says, I am a Detroit mechanic. I used to work for a Detroit Diesel Distributer (not just dealer) when the 2-strokes were used in trucks and buses 20-30 years ago. I have torn down and rebuilt more of these engines than I can remember through the years and the use of 15w-40 oil has never specifically caused any failures in any of them. Many fleets run all types of diesels and for simplicity used to buy only one oil-- 30 wt then 15w-40 as it became popular. The more knowledgeable truck and bus garages bought the 40wt just for the Detroits. The use of 15w-40 and 30wt causes problems such as lower oil pressure at idle (which is low anyway!), more oil leaks from the thiner oil, and higher oil consumption. 15w-40 also will form more deposits on the piston ring area from the higher ash content, but by the time I rebuild an engine there are deposits in the ring gland area anyway from weak rings, so I can't tell if it makes any difference in the longetivity of the engine. Now, even though 15w-40 and 30wt create problems, if run your engine in freezing temperatures (cold climate conditions), you will find that the engine turns over and starts easier, and the moving parts are lubed quicker when warming up. So it becomes a trade off. In my book, I don't mind using 15w-40 or 30wt in the winter and straight 40wt in the spring and summer. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Skuza, but does we hear der sound of applause? (Tks Geoff) | ||
| Gus Haag (Mrbus)
Rating: N/A |
Geoff, BRAVO, well said. Gus | ||
| TWO DOGS Rating: N/A |
lotsa neurotic people....hey...doesn't 15-40 mean 15 wt. when cold engine & 40 wt. when engine warm...see no need to change in summer...everybody has their own beliefs...I believe Rotella is a better oil...can't say about useing oil,my engine never has used any oil | ||
| Don/TX
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Thanks Geoff, I knew you would come thru on it. |