| Author | Message | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
Folks, I got to asking myself if it was possible to set up a 40ft layout such that there are two truly private adult-sized and full-height bedrooms, plus everything else you'd normally have 'cept maybe some skimping on closets. Not a "living room that converts to a second bed" or "dinette that changes into a kiddie bed". A real second bedroom. My tentative answer is "yes, but it'll be tight in a 96inch 40ft". With a 106", more practical, and with a 45ft VERY doable. AC gets a bit tricky and it would be rough keeping all of the gray water sources on one side. I know that some people have gone with a single mixed gray/black tank - does anyone have comments re: downsides on that, other than maybe a bit more tank-treatment-stuff used? http://www.equalccw.com/twobedroom.gif Thoughts? | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
Rating: N/A |
106"? | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
Sorry, I meant 106" wide versus 96" wide. The two standard widths of buses. 96" works out to exactly eight feet wide, which is how I've scaled the drawing in question. PROBLEM: that doesn't take into account "little details" like exterior wall insulation thickness, thicknesses of interior walls, etc. I am assuming those would add up to as much as 6" across the width of the coach, making this "tight as it is" gameplan unworkable. With 106" overall width to play with, that issue vanishes and you still get another 4" or so to play with. Which doesn't sound like much until you operate right at the edge of usable workspaces such as the kitchen in that blueprint. I started the blueprint by laying out feet markers length and width for a 40ft long 8ft wide rig, knowing that anything "barely possible" in 96" should work great in 106". (Note: some of the newer "city buses" are rated 106" wide but the walls "slope inwards" in a fashion that negates most of the advantage (RTS, etc.). Once you get into a 106" highway coach with vertical sidewalls you really get to use all that.) | ||
| Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
Rating: N/A |
Wide-bodies are 102" wide (8'-6"). 8'x40' band busses will often have two small bedrooms and even a bunkhouse between, but no real kitchen to accomodate. No showers usually, either. Your 2BR with these amenities will be tight. The biggest thing that bugged me about your plan was the serpentine hallway... maybe should be re-thought, IMHO. You should tape it off somewhere, using big cardboard sheets or plywood for the vertical surfaces to get a feel for this at real scale. FBB | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
Point well taken about real-world layouts. And a tape measure, tape and a parking lot would do. Heh. And yeah, I meant 102"...106 was a brainfart. Still, 102" will compensate for any wall thicknesses. As to the hallway...I think it's necessary. You COULD maybe do one long hallway along that side from the living room to the rear bedroom and then have the kitchen be accessable to your left as you walk towards the rear of the bus. Then the bath could be accessable from both bedrooms as it's own room separate from the kitchen on the far side of the kitchen. But...the bathroom becomes enormous? Wait...let's think a sec. What if we used those old-fashioned combo showers/toilet/sink units you used to see all the time in small Class C rigs? Funky, yeah...but you could do TWO of 'em, one connected to each bedroom! Heyyyy... http://www.equalccw.com/twobedroom2.gif How's that? No funky aisle, kitchen is a really neat workspace other than slightly odd fridge access...and the ULTIMATE in privacy for each couple. Doable in a 40' 102", living room goes back to normal in a 45'. | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
I'm curious, are you thinking of two couples in a single coach or separate sleeping accomodations because of a loud snorer/light sleeper? One couple populates a coach pretty thoroughly. For two, I will jokingly wonder if they would have to be so close that they might as well sleep together, bringing us back to a one bedroom coach, albeit an overpopulated one! | ||
| dug Rating: N/A |
Jim, thanks for sharing. You have some great ideas. Made me rethink my plan. I will effectively have two bedrooms, because I have 3 kids. Keep on scheming! (and sharing) Dug 75 MC8 Arcadia, FL | ||
| TWO DOGS Rating: N/A |
best thing for kids OR mother in law....a basement bedroom...with trap door down to it | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Or, hey... here's a novel idea. Get a 60' bus and have 4 bedrooms! :D Yea, yea, shush, I already know what some of you are going to say! :p -Kevin | ||
| Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
Rating: N/A |
Jim, I like the second scheme much better... less space dedicated to circulation. If possible, I'd still make the bedrooms somewhat convertible (like with Murphy bed, foldouts, etc.). Since you don't have much living space, you need to maximize the bedrooms' daytime usage as much as possible. Maybe look at some old railcar parlor ideas or something along those lines. Keep tweakin' your plan and it'll be nice and tight by the time you're ready to build it. Brian | ||
| Jeff Pritchard (Jeffpritchard)
Rating: N/A |
Jim, going back to your idea about the double decker bus, why not just work out some hydraulics to make a street legal double decker. Maybe twelve feet tall when driving, and about 18 feet tall when parked? As an alternative, what about two busses? jp | ||
| gillig-dan Rating: N/A |
Or, tow a camper, pop-up, tent, VW camper bus (make a great toad)?? We had a bunkhouse style camper that worked well for us. Gillig-Dan | ||
| mel 4104 Rating: N/A |
we have a fellow up here that did not do his home work as he knows all the answers so why ask the questions. the sad part is that he purchased 2 4905.s and used one for a donner shell then he went to all the trouble of roof raising and even went to the trouble of streching it from 40 ft. to 45 ft. now when he wants to go from point a to point b he has to get a permit for over length and when he wants bring it back he has to get another permit. and when he gets to the borders he has to get more permits for that state or province as nearly all of the list the legal length for a motor home as a max. 40 feet. | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
Quoting: "Maybe twelve feet tall when driving, and about 18 feet tall when parked?" You know, there may actually be a way to go there! Somebody in New York has three "Leyland Atlantean" "taxi busses" - double deckers with open roofs, 30ft long. At a glance, they appear to be under 12ft tall. Putting a low roof on with a series of bedrooms is one possibility but the hydraulic thing is NOT out of the question. They want $12k a pop for 'em. I don't know anything about the drivetrain though, other than pics showing a pusher mounted horizontal...have no idea power or gearing or compatibility with freeway speeds. Hmmmmm... There are travel trailers of about 30ft made so that they lift up like that, starting from about 4ft tall. Pull the suspension and tongue off, fit the sucker right to the roof of the Leyland  . Use a straight vertical ladder for access to save complexity and lower floor space, move all the liquid tanks down low for stability, presto...basically all done with 30ft worth of lower floor space for literally whatever you wanted. Use a piece of dryer exhaust tube through the same hole so the ferret can make his way top to bottom...piece of carpet on the wall would allow the cat to do the same. 'Cuz hey, ya gotta have weasel vs. kitty wrestling matches going on all over for entertainment . ---- Getting back to that 40ft two-bedroom concept: Brian Brown: can't agree more regarding bedroom convertability - esp. the 2nd forward one. One slightly weird idea would be to put in a "rollcage" in mild steel all around the inside of that room, set up to where you could hang as many as three or four small hammocks with air matresses or two bigger ones. When not in use they could go into a small trunk in the corner and the room used for whatever - office space or similar. We could do grillwork about a foot tall and near the roof on two walls of the bedroom to allow AC circulation to that room? | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
Jim - why don't you do what most others have done - especially for kids - 2nd BR in the bay - that way you don't waste 15% or more of your living area w/ hallways - If not have you thought of a movable partition wall like hotels and convention centers use? Niles | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A |
...a movable partition wall like hotels and convention centers use... Niles has it. They're called airwalls in the trade. ANY bedroom with fixed walls is a waste of space, IMHO. I know, I'm a 1%'er. | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
A bay bedroom makes sense for kids, not adults. Unless they actually want a "dungeon" . OK, enough on THAT subject. Besides, that's where the jacuzzi goes! (Kidding, mostly...) On a more serious note, partitions wouldn't be stable on the road. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A |
Jim - IIRC, the whole idea behind what you're doing is to provide a "hotel" for folk who go dirt-biking during the day, with their bikes/quads carried along behind in a trailer, correct? You've gone from 16 passenger sleeping accomodations to 12 and now to 4, if I've been following your threads correctly here and on other message boards. Question: Are you going to charge a fee for these folk to go dirt-biking and ride/sleep in this rig? If so, you will now be operating a commercial vehicle, and will be subject to all the requirements thereof, including commercial liablility insurance ($5 million minimum, roughly $1500-2000/month), commercial driver's license issues (CDL Class B-P), random drug testing, unnannounced vehicle inspections by CHP's Motor Carrier unit (imagine getting "red tagged" out in the Mojave desert), and that's just the beginning. Not saying what you want to do is not doable, just asking are you aware of what it's leading to. Food for thought, FWIW. . . RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
"IIRC, the whole idea behind what you're doing is to provide a "hotel" for folk who go dirt-biking during the day, with their bikes/quads carried along behind in a trailer, correct?" No, this would NOT be for that purpose! This would be more "pure RV". Sigh. See, when I was laying out that bike trip thing, I was under the impression that a commercial DL in California meant "passenger vehicle with 15 or more people" - less than that and you can operate on a limo license. But now I'm finding out it's 10, not 15. And that makes the whole commercial aspect impractical for now. No bus in my price range is likely to meet California emmissions standads for commercial diesels. It might be practical in other states but I'm stuck here for the next few years at a minimum. | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
Rating: N/A |
Jim---I also like the second version. Very very good job. We all need to think sideways about doing things in a new (and novel) fashion. Ever toured a nuclear sub? And these guys spend weeks (months) at sea. You have lots of room. I like the two (2) heads. Carry on. | ||
| CoryDane RTSII Rating: N/A |
I really like your enthusiasm and imagination in your drawing. AC could have ducted vents AC could go room to room with fans in walls or walls that are open at top I think you need to eliminate the extra door to bath in lieu of closet space. Might think of a long grey water tank placed across the bay to collect from kitchen and bath. Didn't we see some guy use 12" ABS or some type of tubing for FRESH water? I think the rear bedroom door to the bath will be a problem if you are puting in any kind of closet. my thought on the mid bedroom is to use curtains or sliding/folding walls to increase the living area, use either a couch that turns to a bed with fold up bench seat and tables on the opposing wall. Other alternative would be a murphy bed. You could place a seat with fold down back under the bed, fold down the back then fold down the bed. I would be all for opening the liv room space during the day and using the space for sleeping at night. Nice thought, good imagination. Keep up the thoughts, you'll find what you want. "Always on the lookout for the (perfect) layout" cd | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
This proposed plan violates the established rule of: Seat 8 (Or is that 6), feed 4, sleep 2, and no suitcases allowed. The RV police are going to lock u up. | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
Here's the same as #2 but with the bedrooms furnished (one possibility anyways) and with the doors slightly altered to match bed clearances. In this version, the forward bedroom converts to a second entertainment center. If the movie in front is popular with the ladies, the guys can retreat to deal with something where stuff blows up more . http://www.equalccw.com/twobedroom3.gif | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
2 questions. Where is the TV in back and where the hell do I sit to eat? You put computer and stereo on the only table in there? And I just know that all women would love shuttling the food from the fridge to the stove via the hall | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
TV in back can either be another flatscreen between the bedroom entrance door and the bathroom door, or something more conventional as part of the closet. As to the fridge...it's possible to find one that opens from the left. That would help a bit? A 45' would allow a two-place "half dinette" spliced back in. In the 40', I'm used to lap-trays anyways. | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
Oh, as to: "You put computer and stereo on the only table in there?" Computer is a laptop and IS also the stereo (driving external speakers). It can be pushed backwards underneath the TV, giving more than 2ft of clearance. So swap that one large seat for a pair of smaller like the two standard bus seats up front turned around backwards, and you'd have a dinette for two even in the 40ft. | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
The guy I bought my bus from sent me several floorplans that he's collected to give me some ideas to work with... I found one amongst the files that looked like it might be of interest... It's an "alternate" to a full bedroom, and gives you more living space... the master bedroom would, of course, need modifying from the image... but, it's a nice layout.... This particular setup, as it's drawn, sleeps 6. http://www.shreve.net/~bnebus/bus/floorplans/floorplan003.jpg If you'd like to look through the other floorplans he gave me, I've uploaded them to the same directory... Maybe something will give you more ideas? http://www.shreve.net/~bnebus/bus/floorplans/ Cheers! -Kevin | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
Kevin, THANK YOU for that link to all of them! Most are mediocre but a few REAL standouts make it worth browsing! This is the first to have seriously caught my attention: http://www.shreve.net/~bnebus/bus/floorplans/floorplan002.jpg AWESOME family rig, best I've ever seen. Superb use of space. The only thing I'd do different would be to shorten up the "tub" to a shower and run the bunks full-length behind it, allowing tall adults as well as kids. But at 6'4" personally I think of stuff like that. The living room/dining room setup is simply superb, as is a lot of other concepts including the ultra-short rear bedroom. This one: http://www.shreve.net/~bnebus/bus/floorplans/floorplan007.jpg ...is a neat "proof of concept" as to what's possible in terms of divided rooms. More a "mental excercize" than anything finished, I think it's still damned valuable as a starting point. Obvious thought: turn the "mini galley" fridge/microwave area in this into a toilet and small sink, and then use the next room back as a proper galley/dining and *maybe* cram a shower in the corner. Now you've got two complete rooms for "whatever". This one: http://www.shreve.net/~bnebus/bus/floorplans/transit5.jpg ...has a useful idea regarding a combo living room sofa/dining setup. It looks like the first two were drawn up by the guy - lots of common stylistic elements. He's *very* good at this stuff. | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
I figured you'd find something in there that would give you some ideas. I'm glad you found something in them. Make sure you download them to your local drive, I don't know how long they'll remain where they are. I'm limited on FTP space there... So, they could be there a few days... or for a year. Just depends on when I need the space for something else. I'm glad they were something you could use. -Kevin | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
The more I look at 002 there the more I'm simply amazed. THAT is just a masterpiece. Seriously. Multiple "outside the box" elements going on...the micro bedroom, the wide'n'short dinette, etc. I'm gonna do my own variant with foot-scale measurements, see how it comes out. I'm particularly curious how much length is available in those bunks. If they're already 6ft, maybe the kitchen can be shortened up just a hair and that big tub left in place. | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
Here's my riff on 002: http://www.equalccw.com/familybus.gif Differences: I lengthened up the bunks to a full 7ft, shortened the kitchen by giving it a bit of curve, and re-thought the dining situation with a table that plugs in and out on an otherwise main couch. This setup makes sense even for a solo live-aboard. The bottom bunk could be given over to storage (no mattress yet) while the top is a "guest bedroom" - and for a rig I'd plan on keeping for 10+ years, it's got "expansion" . I'm young enough (39) that's still a possibility. | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Nice. I'm glad you were able to get some ideas from what I had available. I hope they are useful for others as well! What are you using for your design program? I find it difficult to use Photoshop for this kind of thing. --- I@n... If you would like to make these drawings available from your server, I think they would make a good addition. -Kevin | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
I have no problems whatsoever with people uploading my floorplans elsewhere or cribbing off them . I'm using Windows Paint! Everything hand-done . Lots of zoom-work at the pixel level to clean up small edges. I started the first by laying out the one-foot gridlines. I've used the same ones since. | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
Just as another excercise...here's what's possible in 35ft: http://www.equalccw.com/familybus35.gif The trick is to figure out how to combine living and dining. Which works as long as the living room couch doesn't pop out into a bed. Which is fine by me, I have a low opinion of converta-beds from a comfort standpoint...the back bunks with more proper beds make the converta-couch unnecessary. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A |
Just a thought/comment on the family bus layouts, the ones where the bed in the rear bedroom has it's headboard against the curbside wall. . . Any idea of what a PITA it will be to try and make the bed??? And getting out of it at Oh-Dark-Thirty to go use the john will not make your spouse/significant other very happy as you wake them up crawling across it to get out. . . or get back in, for that matter. You might end up in that hammock strung across the steering wheel!!  Just thinkin. . . RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Some sacrifices/compromises must be made for overall design. -Kevin | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A |
True, BUT: If Mama ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy!! And Mama ain't gonna be too happy trying to make that bed. . . How do you like sleeping on a hammock, 'cause that's where you're gonna be!! LOL RJ | ||
| Jim in California Rating: N/A |
Hummmmmmm. <scratcheshead> Heh. Yeah...OK...so... Take the bedroom just like it is, 'cept lengthen it two feet and stretch the living room so the whole thing is a 40: http://www.equalccw.com/familybus40.gif Put her ("her" in the future-tense sense, there ain't a "her" quite yet, sigh) in against the back wall because there ain't no way she'll wake me up if she climbs past me . I sleep like the dead. (True story: years ago I lived in a 33ft motorhome with a back rear bedroom. I used an extra-long "mummy" sleeping bag as the top cover, unzipped, with the last 1ft "tubular" end hanging over the edge of the bed. Because that was Felix and Mikey's bed - the bottom of the tube. I got to where I would hold onto the blankets all night because a total of 4.5lbs of ferrets was trying to drag my covers off . That's right - their little weaselly bodies going in and out past my feet all night wouldn't wake me up . The only time it became a problem was one winter when we had a real cold snap of about 30 degrees (cold for the SF Bay Area anyways, and it was a damned Southwind). The guys would still get up to use the litterbox no problem, grab a bite and a drink and crawl back in bed as usual. The problem was "where do we stage the nightly 2:00am wrestling match"? The usual location (living room floor) was too damn cold. So the answer they came up with was "right behind the big guy's knees!" Picture me in the middle of the night, a "carpet shark" in each hand, scolding 'em and telling 'em to go back to freakin' SLEEP! Despite such issues, I miss the guys a lot (stolen in '97).) | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A |
If you are going to put a bed in a tight spot, you would no want to use a stiff innerspring matress. Foam is better around tight spaces, because you can bend the corners up to slip the fitted sheets over them. Our innerspring matress would be impossible to make if it were only accessable from one side. |