| Author | Message | ||
| Ken Kushner (Kudu)
Rating: N/A |
Greetings, I'm in pursuit of an MCI 102A3 with an 8v92t for conversion. In scouring the internet for possible canidates, the prices seem to vary somewhat. How you know how much to offer and feel like you got a fair deal? I realize that most of this is based on condition, but is there a "book" value for buses. If so, where might I locate one? Thanks,Ken | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
-My- opinion? Blue book; schmoo-book. Take the bus to a bus garage for a complete inspection and get an oil analysis along with the inspection. Let them tell you if the unit is worthwhile to even bother with and how much to expect to spend for repairs. They'll even give you an idea of current prices for a bus in the condition they're seeing yours in. Its not a car. The clean body and interior isn't going to make up for a combination of major repairs. A sick engine, bad rear end, sick transmission, bad suspension and bushings, front end work can all cost you more than a bus in better condition to start with. Take it to a competent bus garage. MCI, ABC... there's local bus companies all over the place. If the owner won't allow it, forget it; it ain't worth the time. | ||
| Linda 4104 FL Rating: N/A |
Look into National Bus Trader magazine... I seem to recall that every other month's issue had a listing of average prices/values for the various bus models. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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A lot of people refer to Bus Trader as a good source to at least find the range of asking prices on a particular bus. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Like the antiques and collectibles price guides, the one for used buses represents only "a range of asking prices" . It is not indicative of the value of the bus you would be looking at for purchase. If -all-1986 MCI 102A3s were selling for around $19,000 and the one you're looking at has a price tag of $10,000, it absolutely -does not- mean it's a great deal. If the tag is $30,000 on that same bus it does not mean it's a good buy -or- a bad buy. It will not tell you what -that- bus is worth. The only thing that will tell you what it's worth, is it's total condition. So, using that above example, the "asking price" for a used 1986 MCI 102A3 may reasonably range between 10 and 30 grand, and the pricing will still not tell you what the bus is actually worth. That 30k bus may need 30k worth of repairs and that 8k bus may only need 3k of repairs....or vice-versa ad nauseam. | ||
| marc schlabach Rating: N/A |
Ken, If you want 3 or4 more inches head room buy a 102c3 . Same coach otherwise. | ||
| Ken Kushner (Kudu)
Rating: N/A |
Thank you for all the advice! I guess I was more or less looking for a "baseline value" pertaining to buses. As a newbee to this bus world, I was hoping to have some sort of reference point when shopping for a decent coach. My desire for the MCI A3 is strictly fueled buy the updates to the suspension, powerplant and lastly, the cost. I first focused on the MCI 9 but the more I scanned the internet it became apparent the 102A3 could be had for a few thousand more. Besides, I have found very few here on the west coast without flirting in the 30,000.00 range. I sure would appreciate some feedback on the ABC Bus Company, are they trust worthy? Do they take good care of their inventory? Fair to deal with? Thanks | ||
| Ken Kushner (Kudu)
Rating: N/A |
Marc, either model will work for me, I plan on raising the roof line between 8-10 inches. Best Regards, ken | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
Ken: ABC is generally just like any other dealer of buses: they have some great ones, they have others that are short of being great, and they have some that are absolute junk. Naturally, it is in their best interest to convince you that they are all great. I have never bought a bus from them and don't personally know anyone who has but I have shopped them many times for myself and with others. I have always found that any "good deal" they were offering came with significant problems upon careful inspection. I have also found the same to be true at other dealers. IMHO they price their inventory with good knowledge of the bus condition. If they consider it to be premium, then they will price it accordingly. Don't expect them to tell you "By the way, it needs a transmission rebuild." That is precisely why many here advise that at a minimum, you have someone at least familiar with the bus your interested in to look it over for you. Ideally, you will run it through a good bus mechanic that can give you a thorough inspection. That will cost you. If a dealer or anyone else balks at it, walk. Your in a buyer's market so don't rush into anything. Just keep in mind, that salesman at the bus lot did his apprenticeship at your local Yugo dealership, or perhaps he used to sell Kirby vacuum cleaners. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Ken- As a total "aside" to the quest for proper pricing for a decent 102" bus, have you considered the problems facing an owner of a 102" vehicle, vs the standard blend 96" vehicle? It may or may not be that big an issue, depending on how and where you like to travel. We used our RVs (and will continue to), as a second car. Rather than tow, I much prefer to tour an area using our RV. If we stray further than planned, we are still "home" anyway... There are many areas that would add some driving anxiety to squeezing a 102" bus through. The narrow streets of Key West, downtown Boston, etc, come to mind.. I talked to an owner of a 45' 102" coach staying at $100+ a night campgrounds in the Keys, missing the beauty and views that we have when staying at the State Parks..... because their bus was not accepted by the State Park due to it's size. He didn't take his bus into Key West, due to the narrow streets. There's pros and cons to everything. | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Rating: N/A |
Ken Call some one for the advice you are looking for. Call Luke at U.S.Coach for advice. He knows what the prices are and he knows what to look for in the coach. Mike 4905 | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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JTNG: A non-sensical argument you present on 96" vs. 102". I have never met anyone that "toured" a city with their bus and thereby willingly subjected themselves to the aggrivation; that is why we have tow vehicles. Common sense dictates that it is far easier and more convenient, not to mention more economical. I suspect the gentleman in Key West was subject to restrictions more as a matter of length than width. Many State Parks thruout the country cannot accomodate more than30-35 feet, generally old, long established parks. Road To The Sun in Glacier Nat'l Park has a 25' length limit as well as 7'6" width limit at mirrors. Therefore, you take the tow'd. The narrowest Highway I have driven is H-1 on the Baja. It is 16' of asphalt in many areas, and in spots some of that is missing. Lots of 102 wides travelling in both directions. If u want to tour Boston, go to GreyLines and pony up the $55 for an all day guided tour; they pick u up at your campground. You'll find that just parking your tow'd can be a challenge. I recommend the same for any major metro area. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't hardly sightsee while driving a bus or anything else. What the hell, tour operators need to make a living too! | ||
| Ken Kushner (Kudu)
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Are there possibly agents that would represent a buyer in the purchase of a bus? Obviously, someone trustworthy. If so, does anyone know where I might find such a person? Thanks for all the input!! Ken | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
" I have never met anyone that "toured" a city with their bus and thereby willingly subjected themselves to the aggrivation; that is why we have tow vehicles". Sorry but the handy 35 ft coaches do this like a charm. We almost NEVER bother to drag a lump , when we go antiquing, a car has NO BAYS to haul treasure away in. There ARE Other uses for coaches than just RV's. Downtown in most cities is a NOTHING to this recovering NYC resident. And should hardly be any problem for anyone , IF the city streets are not to "Ye Oldie". Works for me, FAST FRED | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Ken- Although there's no real substitute for a real bus garage with either a pit or lift, make sure you use a real bus mechanic with real bus experience to look a unit over, if you are unable to drive the bus to one. I have found that most truck garages haven't a clue regarding the the construction and engineering of a bus. Many truck mechanics simply do not know what to look for regarding deterioration of the stress points in a vehicle like a bus. Most do not like working on the engine, due to the lack of room. Using someone that does not like the job of crawling under an 11 ton vehicle that's held up only by air bags, may not take the time to look for all the major points of concern. The phone book can provide a source of numbers of "mobile service mechanics"; those with fully equipped service vehicles that make house calls. If you're buying from a reputable bus company, you can usually hire them to inspect the bus. They'll charge you the per hour rate, the inspection will be thorough and complete and they'll hand you a written report. Regardless where you buy one, or from who... You're paying a lot of hard-earned cash for a vehicle and have the right to have it inspected thoroughly by a mechanic of your choice. Don't let the glitter and size sway your judgement or logic of any "price per pound" figure. The problems that bus may have, can easily outweigh any amount of repair. And the price you pay for it does not guarantee its' condition. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
James- I drove charter bus through most of the NE States. Side-street touring didn't bother me with a conventional 96" bus. A 102 may... I've only driven one on a line run from Williamstown to Boston, and that was many years ago. Sure, you can tow a car. We flat-towed a loaded van behind each fully loaded RV we owned. It's fine, if you're making your once a year, three-week vacation, or if you're full-timing. But we enjoy just jumping in and driving off at will. We usually don't know if we'll be gone a day or a month before we go. We drove to Massachusetts for a funeral and stayed for 3 months... Without a towed vehicle. Although near all of us will have no problem driving the 102 body, it may add to the "work" and resultant stress of driving. Most local roads are not suited to 102" vehicles any more than most parks are. RVing should be enjoying, not work. Having a 45 foot coach or a 102" wide body sounds like fun! It probably is, until you find you can't get to where you wish you could go, due to it's size. (A friend has a 102" wide 34' RV. He's torn the steps, the awning rail.... claims he will have to tow a car for his next trip, since he couldn't access some streets on his last trip). RVing should be freedom and it's size and width can limit that freedom if it exceeds the usual comfortable limits of park and road design. | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
Can't wait to hear tales of the 60ft Articulated when he finaly gets to go Touring! FAST FRED | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
"There are many areas that would add some driving anxiety to squeezing a 102" bus through. The narrow streets of Key West, downtown Boston, etc, come to mind.." Having seen a 45', 102" wide coach (1996 VanHool) taken through downtown Boston, I have to say that the number of places a good driver can take one of these barges is amazing. Heck, I've seen 40' RTS & Flyers from the MBTA taken places I would have sworn a 30'er would have found a tight squeeze. "Road To The Sun in Glacier Nat'l Park has a 25' length limit as well as 7'6" width limit at mirrors." 90"? Dang...I think both of our toads (K-5 Blazer, Dodge W-200 Power Wagon) are wider than that. 25' length...better not bring my Cadillac, then.  "If u want to tour Boston, go to GreyLines and pony up the $55 for an all day guided tour; they pick u up at your campground. You'll find that just parking your tow'd can be a challenge. I recommend the same for any major metro area. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't hardly sightsee while driving a bus or anything else. What the hell, tour operators need to make a living too!" Even better, get a group of like-minded people together, and call A&A Metro Transportation--they have buses ranging from 13 seats to a 45' VanHool coach. Split the cost 20+ ways, & it'll probably be cheaper. That, and a 25-passenger E-450 cutaway will go plenty of places Gray Line can't. "We almost NEVER bother to drag a lump , when we go antiquing, a car has NO BAYS to haul treasure away in." Which is why I'm going to have a truck for a toad. "Can't wait to hear tales of the 60ft Articulated when he finaly gets to go Touring!" I've seen MBTA drivers take those big Flyer artics places you would not believe. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Johnny- When I drove buses, I drove buses. I drove in and out of Manhattan often. Taking scouts to their campsite in the woods was not a task I balked at with Intercounty Motorcoach's Eagle. That was in the 60s. Most all of us do not drive professionally now, but would like to use a bus as we would an RV. Most of us will use it sporadically, infrequently, or for a few weeks here and there out of a year. That isn't much time to develop any expertise in handling that bus. Where the seasoned driver can maneuver his bus easily, will be a more difficult task to the guy that doesn't do those maneuvers daily. I'm not trying to say anyone can't do it...... but if you're going to enjoy life and like travelling without stress, why use something that's not designed for "normal" travelling....? Well...... I guess if someone's the kind that likes taking an interstate to that pricey resort designed for Prevosts at over $100 a night, plus elec, water, cable, etc.... and using the car to tour.... minimally at best, since travelling to and from the resort is tiring.... But then..... why not just fly to wherever... and rent a car? The bigger the rig, the bigger the headaches of using it for a short vacation. I like to drive; to travel and to go where I want, when I want. Using the bus as I would a common van, is my interests. We had more fun parked in Key West, across from the Ocean, having lunch in our own "home", than we ever did sitting in some high buck java joint, worrying if we pumped enough quarters in the meter...... I hate looking for restrooms, don't you? And we've been to remote antiques shops with the 36' RV. I'm not sure if I'd have chanced that back road with a 45' 102" body.. To each their own... | ||
| Ken Kushner (Kudu)
Rating: N/A |
Does US Coach have a web site? Thanks | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
YES , but there not a WEB BUSINESS , so a phone call to 888.COACH34 and talking to Luke works 1000% better. FAST FRED | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
Going off the beaten path is one of the many reasons I'm converting a school bus--I've gone plenty of places a coach would get hung up trying in smaller (25-28') motorhomes. However, at 40' and 96" wide, it's plenty big. But, if it will physically fit someplace, I can get it in there. I find Boston less stressful in a 35' International 3800 or Spartan pusher than I do in a car. If someone is not comfortable handling their bus (or any other vehicle) under ANY conditions, they should either practice enough to be comfortable, or sell the bus and buy something they can safely handle. Heck, I took some cones & barrels to a big parking lot & practiced backing and 90 degree right turns the first time I drove a motorhome and towed a trailer. |