| Author | Message | ||
| Luis (Sundancer)
Rating: |
A question for you bus electricians. On 50 amp hookups you have a hot 1, a hot 2, common and then ground. So you go to a campground that doesn't have 50 amp. You buy a plug that converts from 50 down to 30 amp hookup. Since on 30 amp you only have one hot, is that plug taking that one hot and putting it out as hot 1 and hot 2 towards your bus? Is this normal in the bus and RV world? | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
yes | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Both of the individual 110v feeds leading into your RV from that 50amp plug get tied together with that 30 amp adapter. I ran both AC units at a 30amp campsite, along with some other appliances. Sometimes I'd pop the 30 amp breaker, sometimes not.. I guess it depended if both airs were using their compressors at the time.. They confuse things by simply referring to it as "50 amp" service, since you really aren't getting "more amps", but are simply utilizing a split RV electrical system with 20-30 amps on one one or both "legs" of that system as supplied by the source.. All 30 amp RV systems can utilize "50 amp service", since all utilize a split system. All that's needed, is some rewiring of the power cord, or the addition of a second power cord. Only one AC unit runs while on shore power, but both run when powered from the genset. The genset feeds both legs, while that 30 amp plug feeds only one leg. (most RVs have a switch to allow powering the front or rear ac as desired.. when on shore power) | ||
| gillig-dan Rating: N/A |
Just don't install any 220 VAC appliances unless you will always have two legs of power. Gillig-Dan | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
OR..............don't USE 220 appliances while plugged to 30 amp | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
I am a little confused by jtng's response. 50 amp service in a properly wired campground consists of two 50 amp legs of 120 volt power for a total of 100 amps available. Within the RV, these two legs (and the neutral) go to two different sets of breakers. Generally in the same breaker box. When operating in this manner you would have 12,000 watts (12kw) of power available. 6 kw for each of the two legs. Now when you go to a park that only has 30 amp service available you have a total of 3.6 kw available. The adapter is a 30 amp to 50 amp unit. 30 amps from the power pole going to a 50 amp shore cord. Within the adapter, the two hot legs of the shore cord are tied together and connected to the one hot connector from the power pole. You now have a total capacity of 30 amps available feeding a 50 amp shore cord system, which really is two 50 amp services for a total of 100 amps. Needless to say, you must be very conservative in trying to operate electrical systems within the RV as you now only have 30 amps available instead of 100 amps. Richard | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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50 amps......it does not multiply....only in your head....nobody said 100 amps | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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TD, How much would like to wager, and make it easy on yourself!! Richard | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
then...why don't they advertise 100 amp. service | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
The amperage of service relates the amount of current that can flow thru the [a] conductor. If you multiply out to total watts you'll get a simpler "term" of expression. 2D, You're comparing apples with oranges (but admittedly we're talking fruit [i.e. electricity. You're mixing general with specific]) | ||
| Doug Dickinson (Dougd470)
Rating: N/A |
50 amp service is 50 amps at 240 volts. 30 amp service is 30 amps at 120volts (or thereabouts) Total power is 12,000 watts on a 240/50 circuit and 3600 on a 120/30 circuit. By tying the two hots together on the 240 volt line, you are then in the relm of a 120 volt circuit. Some campgrounds do this, but it conflicts with the National Electric Code, which is adopted in most municipalities. RVers do it all the time, but know what you are doing first. Doug St Louis MC9 | ||
| Luis (Sundancer)
Rating: N/A |
I love putting out questions and then getting them answered by seeing you guys out there banter with each other. I think we all learn from it. Thanks for the info. I was pretty sure this is whats happening since I can see it with my meters, but I just wanted to make sure so- s I don't cook myself, or worse yet, someone else. Thanks for the input. Luis | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
I would like to expand on that a little bit. To be a little more accurate, 50 amp service is 50 amps at 240/120 volts. 50 amps if using a 240 volt circuit and two 50 amp circuits if using 120 volt circuits. The two 50 amp circuits are 180 degrees apart electrically, so they can never be tied together. Otherwise you let the smoke out of the system. Campgrounds, nor anyone else, can tie the two hot leads of a 240/120 volt service together. The adapter that has been discussed is a 30 amp to 50 amp, not a 50 amp to a 30 amp. If a campgound only has 30 amp service available, the adapter plugs into the standard 120 volt outlet on the power pole. The adapter is internally wired so that the same 120 volts is connected to both the hot legs of the output side of the adapter. When you plug your 50 amp shore cord into the adapter, you now have 30 amps of single phase, 120 volts available, connected to both legs of your 50 amp shore cord. Within the coach you only have 30 amps of power available which generally will not operate two roof airs, especially if there are any other electrical appliances operating. Richard BTW, all remarks are regarding a coach that is internally wired for 120 volts only and no 240 volt appliances are utilized. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
Whenever this subject comes up, and that is often, I have to wonder where everyone is finding these parks that have no 50 amp service? I find it to be common, probably in the realm of 80-90% of parks, even in the "Outback" of the Western US States. I have encountered some less than "standard" arrangements, but they are the exception; like 50 amp service on 30 amp breakers or 1 leg not connected and even a crossed hot--ground once. What is usually more the case is low voltage, especially in older or busy parks that have inadequate incoming service. | ||
| Luis (Sundancer)
Rating: N/A |
Going to Vegas and staying at the KOA in Circus Circus. I can have either 50 or 30 amp service. One little catch, 50 amp costs $5 more per day. Why pay extra when you know your not going to use it? Whats more, with my set up I can probably run both airs off the 30 amp service. Just commenting on the last input. Thanks, Luis | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Richard- I have yet to find a park that will supply me more than 30 amps to either of the single leg of the split circuit. When they claim "50 amp service", they supply a total of "50 amps" to the outlet box and to your 50 amp plug. Each leg of that service is no more than 30 amps. Most often, we find one 30 and one 20 amp breaker at the breaker box. Since all the wiring in the RV is for not greater than 30 amp service, along with all your outlets rated for (up to) 30 amp service, you should not expect to run anything that may draw 50 amps without popping breakers, or worse. The confusion continues, every time someone relates 220v service to the claimed and advertised with "50 amp service." No campground that I have ever heard of, claims to supply 220v to any RV. They do claim to provide "50 amp" service as per the RV industry's standard. All RV AC wiring is essentially set up the same. The circuits are split to accommodate the running of only enough major appliances on a 30 amp service. The genset supplies enough for both legs; a 50 amp RV outlet should supply the same as the genset. When plugged into a 30 amp RV outlet, you only have the circuit attached to that one leg, available. When using the adapter, you have both legs energized from that one 30 amp RV outlet. This isn't rocket science.. And we're confusing the issue trying to explain how many amps a 220v supply supplies.m This is an RV outlet, not a home or industry 220v outlet and it meets only the standards of the RV industry. (however vague they may be) | ||
| mike kerley
Rating: N/A |
Thats not the case at MOST parks I've visited. Twin 50 amp breakers and I have often pulled over 80 amps total with three AC's, battery charger on high charge, microwave/convection oven, washer or dryer, hairdryer, two water heaters plus the electronics and refridg running on the inverters drawing from the batteries being recharged. On our coach, a single 30 will keep the batteries charged and allow one AC unit to be run if we keep almost everything else 110V off. Thats assuming we are able to get 105 to 120 volts under load. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
jtng, I think you have been staying at the campgrounds that FF is always talking about and that I have never seen. I don't know anyone else that has either. LOL Like Mike, I have camped at hundreds of campgrounds in virtually every state and have never experienced the symptoms you describe. Definitely what you describe is in violation of the NEC and I have to believe that the majority of campgrounds follow the NEC pretty close. RV's are wired for 30 amp 120 volt service or for 50 amp 240/120 volt service. Period. I have never seen any otherwise. The 50 amp service consists of two hot legs, each rated at 50 amps and a neutral. The capacity of the genset has absolutely nothing to do with the basic wiring of the RV and of course, many units do not even have a genset. I have many many times exceeded 60-70 amps total (30 from each leg of the 240 volt source) and really wonder who provided you with the information you have. Richard | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
snip "then...why don't they advertise 100 amp. service" TWODOGS, In the venacular of the trade, it is 240/120 volts, 50 amps, single phase, three wire plus ground. From this, any electrician knows that you have two 50 amp legs available at 120 volts (100 amps total) or one 50 amp leg at 240 volts. Richard | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
sounds like a suspicios electrical fire  | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Richard- I sometimes don't type as well as I can think... (or is the other way around?)..... I said: "When they claim "50 amp service", they supply a total of "50 amps" to the outlet box and to your 50 amp plug. Each leg of that service is no more than 30 amps. Most often, we find one 30 and one 20 amp breaker at the breaker box. " You said: "I have many many times exceeded 60-70 amps total (30 from each leg of the 240 volt source) and really wonder who provided you with the information you have." And I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the two comments. I must be getting old... or crazier.. It'd make things much easier to understand, if it's explained as it is in "real life". The RV parks don't generally supply you with 220v, they supply you with two 110v circuits built into one outlet and each leg of that circuit may supply up to 30 amps. Perhaps I stand corrected and they really can give you up to 50 amps per leg of that 220v service... That would be the standard for a home 220v outlet. But we're not talking about what's at home.... The RV park and RV industry does not provide "home type" 220v outlets, they provide special RV outlets that will not permit the plug or socket to match if it is not designed to the RV standard. Why... ya' 'spose? Can you run a 220 volt appliance on it? Yeah, if your RV is wired for 220. Most aren't; they're wired for 110. So, to assume that you can power an appliance that's going to draw 50 amps, from any single 110v outlet in your RV.... is going to leave you in a cloud of smoke. Zig-zag or no zig-zag... If the park is going to supply RVs with 220v service, then yes, there may be a 50 amp breaker on each leg. The parks we've ever stayed at that provide 50 amp service, provide only 110v service with a total of 50 amps for both legs of the two 110v supplies at the outlet...total.. And... as far as what people like myself, FF, and others like us are finding, that's so much different than what you and others insist as you find at parks....? Maybe because we don't take a high road in life; we can't justify staying at the high dollar campgrounds that cater to the Prevost, Marathon and "high end" guys? My neighbor once said that every campground he stayed at had a pool... and that most also had tennis courts.... We never found that to be true.... But then... we never, ever, considered paying $100 or more per night, either.. These two urls might help explain how the older campgrounds have solved the problem? (replace the 30 amp box with a 50 amp box and the same wiring as you would find in an adapter): http://www.bouchercon2002.org/p/10262.html http://www.bouchercon2002.org/p/25774.html 30 amp at 110 or on each leg of a 220? http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/files/rv/outlets.jpg | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Rating: N/A |
Hey John, lighten up. Richard, et. al., are entirely correct -- a *real* 50-amp shore service is 50amps at 240/120, and, yes, you can draw a full 50 amps on one leg, or the other leg, or both legs. Yes, I have seen parks "advertise" 50a service that isn't, really -- it's just, as you say, a box with a 30 and a 20 in it. But that's pretty blatant -- most reputable parks give you a real 240v/50a service. We're even finding that many state and county parks now provide this. I'd reckon you've only stayed at very old parks if you've been finding "cheater" 50-a receptacles. BTW, it is absolutely a violation of the NEC and most state laws for a park to wire a 240/120 receptacle with the same phase of 120 on each side. (By contrast, the cheater dogbones that most of us carry which do this are permissible, because they are not permanent wiring.) -Sean | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Rating: N/A |
Oh, and another BTW... Not only is there a legal problem, but a very, very real safety problem with a standard 50-a RV receptacle if the "two" breakers that serve it are not handle-tied -- i.e. *both* sides disconnect if either side trips. So my advice to anyone staying in a campground that does this is: don't use the power, because who knows what other life-threatening liberties they have taken with the code. -Sean | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Hey Sean- I'm light! After I posted that last one and re-read it, it did sound harsh, didn't it... That wasn't my intent. There's absolutely nothing wrong with "the high road". or justifying taking it! Like an old friend once explained, when you only have few weeks out of a year to enjoy camping, why not spend what you want, to get want you want.. the frills are always nice.... But the fact is, most of the campgrounds do not conform to the exact letter of the "rules". They try to provide the most up-to-date service they can, and stay competitive as well. So, they cut some corners. The KOA camps are the ones we generally avoid. Maybe they're up-to-date and conform to the 50 amp per leg credo, but they also charge for every breath you take. From pets aboard to running your heat or AC, they will add a charge for it. As you noted Sean, "real" 50a 220v service can be found... but as you also noted - what I and others have found, are also out there. And without trying to be "harsh": if a person makes a habit of staying at the high priced spreads, they simply won't know what's happening in real life campgrounds... Oh and the BTW......? Is there a difference in one home breaker tripping off, leaving the rest of the house with electricity? Nope. Is there a problem of the breaker that serves 1/2 of the 110/110 service to the RV tripping, leaving the rest of the RV electronics with service? Nope again. That's what I mean by the confusion.... The RV is utilizing a split system. 110 volts to one section and a separate 110 volt supply to the other section. I may be on the learning curve as far as converting a bus, and the mechanics of a bus... but I know what I've found in the years of RV camping.... and the couple years of full-timing.. Oh well..... I'm done. I got nuttin' to add.. | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Just my experience: I have stayed in the FF type parks that only have 15 amp service and sometimes two units have to run extension cords and share one duplex. I have only found these in the NE US and south Ontario in Canada. In the rest of my travels I was frequently asked (because I had a bus) if I needed 220. If I parked at a 220 location they would have a much larger RV style box that had a 240 volt - 50 amp receptacle the same as your range receptacle at home. It also had two 30 amp RV style 120 volt receptacles and one 15 amp 120 volt duplex, all with their own breakers. In many cases these were found in older parks that had updated their service to some sites to accomodate the larger RVs that have 240 volt plugs. The rest of the park still had the original installation. If you drive in with an older or smaller motorhome they don't assign you to a 240 volt site. If you need the 240 volt - 50 amp service then ask when you register and I think you find that many parks to have it available. | ||
| airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
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After reading this I have to chime in..>First many many state Parks in the Southeast only offer 30amp plugins an those may or may not run the coach if a 30-amp coach. This covers Tennessee, NC, SC, FLA, ALA, Miss, And LA. Many of the commercial parks I have found to be the same thur these same areas. Granted I have not stayed at all of them but I have stayed a large number of them in the last 9 years. The park I am in currently has 8 of the 140 sites that are 50 amp. The main breaker panel feeds four sites 50 amps and 8 sites 30amp. There are two main panels covering the 8 50amp sites and providing power for total of 16 30 amp sites. These main panels have a single 200amp main breaker they have 4 double breakers(twice the size of the others) that feed the 4 50amp sites each of these breakers is a 50 amp. There is 8 single breakers each 30 amp feeding the other 8 sites. This is a total of 12 circuits in this main panel the 2nd panel is identical. These feeder lines come into the power panels on each site. The site box has a 50amp plug and a 20 amp gfci in each box there are two breakers in each box one is a 50amp the other is a 20amp they take the space of 3 normal size breakers. The 30amp boxes have a 30amp plug 20amp gfci a 30amp breaker a 20amp breaker and space for adding one more breaker. When I measure the voltage I get 234 volts. That is 117 per each leg. The 20amp gfci I get 107. This is the 50amp box. Now you greats at debate advise me why? what? and how come? Also advise me how this could be anywhere near 100amp or even 60amp when it has a 50amp breaker feeding it. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Rating: N/A |
John, Thanks for your thoughtful response. I still have some concerns, though. You keep saying "The RV is utilizing a split system. 110 volts to one section and a separate 110 volt supplyto the other section." as if that's some kind of absolute. I can assure you, it is not. Many bus conversions, and even some high-end factory-built rigs, utilize 240-volt power for various systems. If there is even one single device on the rig that is 240-volt, then having a 50-amp pair of breakers that is not handle-tied can be fatal, not to mention the possibility of serious damage to equipment. Moreover, if the panelboard in use is even capable of accepting a 240-volt circuit (as most home panelboards and load centers are), then it is impermissable to supply the busbars in that panel from separate breakers -- they MUST be a single 240-volt breaker (handle-tied). While you may be doing a 120-volt-only system, I feel the need to correct what you've written for the simple reason that others reading this board may have different plans (or may, in fact, already own a completed coach with 240-volt systems). As a simple example I offer my own coach: today, as I have re-converted it, there are no 240-volt loads, nor even a way to install such. However, when I bought it, it had a 240-volt Gaggenau cooktop in it. Since a campground operator can not know if any given coach has 240-volt power or, as you put it, "a split system" they can not utilize separate breakers to feed the two legs of a "50-amp service" without potentially creating a deadly situation (or even damaging equipment). Given that it is flatly unlawful in all 50 states, campground operators are opening themselves up to huge liability issues if they choose to wire things this way. I suspect that any that have done it this way have done so out of ignorance both of the law and of the danger, and I stand by my earlier recommendation: stay away from any such place. As for your comment "...without trying to be 'harsh': if a person makes a habit of staying at the high priced spreads, they simply won't know what's happening in real life campgrounds..." let me just say that we seldom stay in RV parks at all, much less the high-end ones. We tend to boondock mostly, but, when we stay in a campground, it is usually a public one (meaning national, state, county, or city parks), and we have found abundant 50-amp power even at these facilities. All of this being said: if lack of real 50-amp shore service is a concern to anyone, then my strongest recommendation is to do as we have done, and design your coach's electrical system in such a way that things will still work fine on 30-amp, 20-amp, or even 15-amp service. At which point it becomes pertinent to know, as the original poster inquired, that the "dogbone" type adapters to connect 50-amp plugs to 30-amp receptacles internally tie the two hot legs together (as required by code and safe operating practice). -Sean | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Rating: N/A |
OK, on to "airless's" question. He wrote: "When I measure the voltage I get 234 volts. That is 117 per each leg. The 20amp gfci I get 107. This is the 50amp box. Now you greats at debate advise me why? what? and how come? Also advise me how this could be anywhere near 100amp or even 60amp when it has a 50amp breaker feeding it." OK, when you measured and got 234v, you were measuring hot-to-hot. There is also a neutral in that receptacle, and you need to measure from each hot to the neutral to really see what is going on. It is possible, due to imbalance in the loads on those two busses, that you might find one hot-neutral meters out at 107 (which would be the same buss that the 20a GFI was on) and the other one meters out at 127. If so, you are looking at a single-phase 240/120 system with a load imbalance. A second possibility is that this park has three-phase service coming in, and this is a delta/wye 240-v three-phase transformer, in which case it is possible to get different phase-to-phase readings than the sum of phase-to-neutral readings. I admit that this particular set of numbers is unusual, but not impossible. (More commonly, a three-phase wye system would show 208 volts hot-to-hot, and 110 volts hot-to-neutral. Many manufacturers and some codes consider a 208/110 service functionally identical to a 240/120 service and permit it to be run on a "range" receptacle such as is typical in campgrounds.) A third possibility is that there is some loss in the GFI receptacle that you are metering which is causing an abnormally low voltage reading at near-zero load. The second part of your question, "...how this could be anywhere near 100amp or even 60amp when it has a 50amp breaker feeding it..." requires correction of a common misunderstanding. You are absolutely correct, you can not get any more *current* out of a 50-amp circuit than 50 amps, period. However, remember that this is 50 amps at 240 volts. That works out to 12,000 watts. Now if you have a completely balanced system, and all your loads are 120 volts, and you managed to draw the full 12,000 watts, you would find that the sum of the amperage going into all your loads would be 12,000w/120v=100amps. So, for example, you could connect 60 100-watt light bulbs on one "side" of the power, and 60 more on the other side, and they would all work, and, in total, they would be drawing 100 amps, but still only 50 amps is flowing in the circuit. The key here is that, if you turned all 120 of those bulbs on at once, and measured the currents on the two hot legs and the neutral of the feed, you would see 50 amps flowing on each hot leg, and zero on the neutral. If you turned half of the lamps off, all on one leg, you would then see 50 amps flowing on one hot, 50 amps flowing on the neutral, and zero on the other hot. A different way to think of this is that all lights on would be 50 amps flowing at 240 volts, while only the one leg on would be 50 amps flowing at 120 volts. Does that help clear things up a bit? -Sean | ||
| airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
Rating: N/A |
Sean in your theory... The 200 amp panel feeding these 12 circuits would be providing potentially; 48000 watts on the 4 50amp circuits. 28800 on the 8 30 amps and another 28800 for the 20 amp circuits. That is a 105600 watts. 105600/120=880amps SO then a 200amp panel can produce 4.4 times its rated amperage? This would assume the box has 528 volts being fed to it. Now where is this 528 volts going to come from? Where is the voltage for the 20amp breakers coming from? The panel has only the circuits I defined. Somewhere each of the panels has to have something feeding the 20s. Each leg was 117 volts hot to ground. Hot to hot 234 volts. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Rating: N/A |
Airless, 1. What I related to you is not a "theory." 2. A "200 amp panel" if it is on a 240-volt system can only supply 48,000 watts, period. The fact that the amperage (or wattage) of the individual breakers fed by the 200 amp main may add up to more than that does not affect what's available. In other words, if every circuit on that panel tried to draw the rated amperage of its individual breaker the panel main would trip. This is common practice -- the expectation in electrical distribution design is that not all circuits will be drawing their rated load at the same time. I would venture a guess that if you looked into the panel in your home or office (or someone elses, if, like many fulltimers, you have neither) and added up the handle ratings of all the individual branch circuits, that they would add up to be three to four times the rating of the main feeding that panel. In the specific panel you describe, if all four of the 50-amp circuits were fully energized and drawing 50 amps each, then any load at all on any of the other circuits would trip the main breaker to the panel. In practice, this does happen from time to time. 3. I don't follow the logic that led you to 528 volts. The panel is a 240-volt panel -- the amount of connected load (or available branch circuits) does not impact the input voltage of the panel. 4. The power for the 20-amp circuits comes from the 30-amp branch circuits. I can't tell from your description whether the 30-amp branch circuits on the main panel are 240-volt or 120-volt (double or single pole) but I would guess they are single. In effect, the 30-amp breaker on the distribution panel forms a "main breaker" for the "30-amp" pedestals you describe. While each of those pedestals, as you describe, includes a 30-amp breaker and a 20-amp breaker with associated receptacles, the whole pedestal is fed by only one 30-amp circuit. So, again, if you connected two loads at the same time, a 30-amp and a 20-amp, and they both energized and tried to draw their full current, then the 30-amp breaker back at the distribution panel will trip. -Sean | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Rating: N/A |
Addendum... Sorry, Airless, forgot to address your last point "...Each leg was 117 volts hot to ground. Hot to hot 234 volts..." In this case, I believe you have a nominal 240/120 system, and these values are within tolerance. That means that the reason you are only seeing 107 on the GFI receptacle has to do with that receptacle itself. The GFI electronics may be interacting with your meter to produce a low reading when no current is flowing in the circuit. -Sean | ||
| airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
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1. Ohms law is a theory you are citing to me what appears to be ohms law. 2. If the panel will only provide 48k watts then the use of the 4 circuits that provide the 50amps will use up all available if you could use the 12000 watts(100amps). Leaving nothing for the rest of the circuits. This would seem to be a major fire hazard and code should not allow. If 4 buses where plugged in and using 1/4th based on the 4times rating you provided the entire circuit would be overloaded. Thats assuming that the coachs each only drew 50amps. Alot of those buses have 220/240 stoves/ranges in them and a lot 220/240 dryers. 3.Ohms law again. If you assume the wattages that you assume and the amperage which is a given then we come up with 528v. (none is actually assumed and I am aware of that just easiet way to say it) 4. The 30 amp branchs are all single pole 120volt circuits. All of the individual power poles have the 120v gfci with 20amp breaker and rating. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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Airless, 1. Uhh, "Ohms Law" is a law, not a theory. In the scientific community, there is a distinct difference. That's why we call it "Ohm's Law" not "Ohm's Theory". Besides which, Ohm's Law states V=IR, which I did not use at all in my analysis -- I used the power equation P=VI. 2. The panel will, indeed, only support 48,000 watts. Indeed, if all four 50-amp circuits were in use and (this is the key point) they were all actually drawing the full 50 amps each (an almost unheard-of situations), then, yes, the panel would be maxed out. It's not a fire hazard, and code readily permits it, because of the simple fact that the panel is protected by a 200-amp main breaker. That breaker will not allow any more than the 200 amps to flow. If more demand is placed on the panel, the breaker will perform its function and trip. This is how all electrical distribution is done. 3. The mistake you've made here is to add up the handle ratings and then conclude that the panel will support that amount of load. It won't. The most wattage you can run through the panel is 48,000, and 48,000 divide by 200amps (the max current as determined by the main breaker) is 240 volts. And this is still not Ohm's Law. 4. Yes, as I surmised. Which means, as I wrote, that the most you can draw at any one pedestal will be 30 amps total, even though there are both 30amp and 20amp receptacles there. If you tried to draw the full amount on both, you'd pop the breaker at the distribution panel. Now I have to ask -- are you posting these questions to get real answers, or, as I am gathering from your tone, to challenge me in some way? If it's the former, I'm happy to oblige, but I would prefer a less confrontational tone. If it's the latter, I must respectfully decline to participate. -Sean | ||
| airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
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I am sorry I did not put tone on my typing.. My questions were questions that needed answering providing you are citing the numbers that are not true numbers. The poles do not provide from what I am reading from you 100amps they provide 50 amps. If they provided the 100amps then they would trip the breaker. This typing crap leaves a lot for folks to assume that more is being said then what is being typed. Most users/readers wish to assume a confrontation rather then just the reading of words without inflection. Now more about the power issue. Part of ohms law is the a derivative dealing with power. AS I have always read it thru my course studies Ohms, Kirchoffs, Superposition Theorem, Thevenins Theorem, Norton's Theorem, Maximum Power Transfer Theorem, Reciprocity Theorem, Millmans Theorem and Compensation Theorem even Joules are still considered theory. This is assuming that all mathematics are considered to be theories. e=mc2 was still being considered one so My assumptions are that most are still. The reality of the 50amp plug is that it in theory could provide 100amps however it cant due to constraints provide by the breakers at the other end. SO then they call them 50amp plugins for that reason. Agreed? | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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Airless, You are 100% correct, the poles of the breaker will only carry 50 amps each. The common misunderstanding that I referred to in my earlier post has to do with the way some people "add up" the numbers and get 100 amps, and it's easy to see why. If you do it right, you *can* plug ten 10-amp/120-volt widgets into a "50-amp service". So, from the perspective of power-using appliances in a coach where everything is 120-volts, it "looks like" 100 amps are available. There is a good deal of confusion in the RV community created by the nomenclature "30 amp service" and "50 amp service." From these phrases alone, it would be easy to assume that 50-amp service is only 1.66 times as big as 30-amp, but, in reality, it is 3.33 times as big (12,000 watts vs. 3,600 watts). The reality, as you say, of a 50-amp service is that, properly connected, it will provide a full 12,000 watts of available power. Sadly, 12,000 full watts is often unavailable due to a variety of reasons, leading to all sorts of compromise solutions. The compromise that this thread started with -- using a dogbone adapter to connect a "50-amp" cord to a "30-amp" receptacle, means that the 3,600 watts of available power must be shared by systems that otherwise could accept up to 12,000 watts. Also, any 240-volt equipment will not work. Lastly, on the subject of Ohm's Law, let me acknowledge that many instructional programs now lump the power equation in with Georg Simon Ohm's original work, even though it came later, and purists like me tend to dislike this sort of revisionist history :-) As for the difference between a law and a theory, I suppose that's a matter of great contention and I will agree to just leave it there. Thanks for clarifying the tone issue -- I guess I am a bit overly sensitive sometimes on this forum (not without cause, if you paw through the archives). -Sean | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Sean is correct - that is why all circuits and sub-circuits are protected by breakers or fuses - providing the safety against overload - GFI's do indicate false voltage readings due to their protective circuitry - also, all loads are limited by the breakers/fuses further up the chain - my home 200 amp panel has 13 single pole 20 amp breakers / 2 20 amp GFI's / 2 30 amp duals / 3 50 amp duals / 2 60 amp duals - well over 200 amp panel rating - when you consider that the dual pole breakers are rated for equipment such as HVAC which require max amperage for initial starting loads and almost instantaneously drop by more than half for operating loads - you see why you are not required to provide a system that operates continuously at max load - Airless is correct that the max possible demand on his 'example panel' is over the 200 amp rating, but if he tried to draw the max load, the main would trip - this reminds me of when we used to put 3 - 200 amp bus bars in a 200 amp fuse to compensate for overloaded circuits - the panels would glow in the dark, and at least one caught fire - the only reason we could do it is cause we were running straight off a 1700+ volt transformer with no protection - Niles | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Holy crap. You guys gave me a major headache. Hey Luis... I think you got the jest of it, minus the techie tango.. If you have 50 amp in the RV/coach, use the "dogbone" with the 30 amp outlets, I did and it's usually fine.Why pay extra for what you don't need. Not many of us are running 220, so no horror show, ehh? Worst case scenario: You pop the breaker - big deal. These campgrounds that want to suck every last penny out of your pocket can go scratch. It's less expensive to run 220 than to run 110, yet they want to charge more for the 50 amp (220) service. #^%*& !! Cheers, man. | ||
| Luis (Sundancer)
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This is why I really like this forum. You get the whole gamut from Two Dog's answer YES to Sean's and Airless discussion on the whole matter. I thank you all for your input and firmly believe we all learn from it. The scary part is that I kind of understand what you people are saying. Luis | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Luis, it's the "scary part" that you "kind of understand what you people are saying" which, by your observations earlier, lead me to believe you more than "kind of" - understand, that is. In any case, for the great silent majority out there who decide to depart from standard electrical use/application, please acquire more than a "kind of" understanding of what's been discussed above! Airless, I'm impressed with your observation: "This typing crap leaves a lot for folks to assume that more is being said then what is being typed. Most users/readers wish to assume a confrontation rather then just the reading of words without inflection." Ace recently weighed in against "pseudo-posters" and now your comment on confrontational "jumps to conclusion" This is good! | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
You can always tell which bus the engineer converted. You have to ask: "and how do you get in?" | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
JTNG, Get in? Did you post to the wrong thread? | ||
| airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
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Ace recently weighed in against "pseudo-posters" and now your comment on confrontational "jumps to conclusion" Sorry I lost you here. That is to say I don't understand what you are saying please explain. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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Sean, thanks for jumping in and taking the heat off me. I do, of course agree with your posts 100%. JTNG, do not forget that you have two 50 amp breakers in a 240 volt distribution system, and each breaker is capable of supplying 50 amps, for a total of 100 amps if you are only taking 120 volt loads. i.e. 50 amps L1-N and 50 amps L2-N. Also, the other adapters that you referenced in an earlier post do work generally. The 20 amp and the 30 amp outlet must be coming from the same source, i.e. L1 or L2, but not both. And if there are GFI's installed, they will trip. | ||
| Luis (Sundancer)
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In conclusion, I will install a series of switches which will prevent hot 1 and hot 2 from ever meeting each other. In some cases it won't matter but there may be that one scenario that will definetly cook you or anyone near by. As for the scary part of understanding what this is all about, scarier is the one that doesn't understand and still goes about wiring their own conversion. This is why input from some of you is so important, and you know who you are!! If you have a question - ask !! The worst that can happen is you'll get people talking and you may learn something.Thanks to all. Luis | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Airless, Sorry I wasn't more clear. You said: “Most users/readers wish to assume a confrontation rather then just the reading of words without inflection." I agree totally. If I am allowed, I have two "gripes", as it were, with conduct on the BB. Pseudo-posters, for example, one who frequently posts as "Blowhard", . Coincidentally, these pseudo-posters, are frequently the ASSumers as you commented (emphasis mine) With a few notable real-poster exceptions, pseudo-posters seem to be the first to take insult from mere comments that were not aimed at criticizing the "offended person", but to expand the thread to relevant areas or points of view. Ian gave us the BB traffic data at Bussin'2005. I'd previously thought, from feedback obtained at the various MAK conventions I'd attended, that the ratio of lookers to participants was about 4 or 5 to 1, but Ian's traffic counts shows it to be several times greater than that. After gathering data for over 10 years, I don't generally “need” the BB for my purposes, although this need or focus will change as I get deeper into the MCI-9 projects. At the same time, I value the knowledge and assistance I’ve received from others, so I try to contribute, not by being dogmatic (although I’m accused of being so) but by targeting my comments more for the lookers and newby’s - the quicker to bring them up to speed or expose them to different approaches. The desired benefit is a more concise, informative BB without the need for active editing, like what happens (kinda) at some Yahoo groups I’ve felt as you’ve expressed, about ASSumers vs inflectors, for quite awhile. Frankly, to quote a line from a WEB Griffin book, I don’t “give a flying f through a rolling donut”, how someone mounts their accessories. As a result, I can feel offended when someone reacts angrily to my question about exactly how the accessory is mounted or observe that one part of the bus structure is stronger than another. Asking for details not previously provided or pointing out something the poster is very aware of (but a newby won't know) is not the equivalent to saying someone did something wrong. That’s why I appreciate your comment. Unfortunately, there is little opportunity to voice this view and this is why I welcome your comment, just as I appreciated Ace recently weighing in against a pseudo-poster on the MAK BB The more that adopt this attitude, the better the BB. | ||
| RonR. Rating: N/A |
Just a note: I installed another small breaker box with a 30 amp cord. Then I ran it to the main breaker panel. I have 50 amp set up ran to the main breaker box as well. 50 amp is available as well as 30 amp. One main breaker box with both tied in. When I want to use 30 amp, I flip on my 30 amp breaker and plug in the shore power. I don't have to sacrifice half of my breakers that way. If I want 50 amp, which is most of the time. I make sure the 30 amp is fliped off and I plug in my 50 amp shore cable. The 50 amp is set up with my auto switch box that goes back and forth between the Generator and the 50 amp. May sound simple and country fied but I don't have any problems at all. I like all of my breakers to be available for either 30 or 50. The only thing is that you have to buy both shore lines. That means that you will have two seperate cables in your bay. One 30 amp rolled up, and one 50 amp rolled up. If for some reason you forget to flip off the 30 amp, the breaker out side will trip if the 50 amp is plugged in. I put a tie (not neck tie) through the flip handle on the 30 amp when it is off so any one can't flip it on by accident. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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snip "In conclusion, I will install a series of switches which will prevent hot 1 and hot 2 from ever meeting each other. In some cases it won't matter but there may be that one scenario that will definetly cook you or anyone near by." Louis, Not to belabour a point, but it ALWAYS does matter if hot 1 and hot 2 ever meet. Always. It will definitely let the smoke out it they ever touch under any circumstance. The two voltages are exactly 180 degrees apart (out of phase). Richard | ||
| John that pseudonewguy Rating: N/A |
Marc- That was "and how do you get in?" (meaning: the bus) And that comment was to seriously imply that engineers may be 100% correct, but always manage to confuse the issue with too much factual data; their answer is often lost in their explanation. In this thread, Marc... Two Dogs answered Luis' question with one word. I attempted to moderately elaborate and should have just said "ditto TD" and left it at that. (I still don't know what a "pseudo-poster" is.. I hope it isn't me?) Luis made a comment: "In conclusion, I will install a series of switches which will prevent hot 1 and hot 2 from ever meeting each other. In some cases it won't matter but there may be that one scenario that will definetly cook you or anyone near by." Now..... it sounds like the poor guy is going into overkill mode? Maybe the 100% factual amount of information has confused the issue? What if dear old Luis adds a switch that disconnects the ground of the "other" leg? Will he be adding a dangerous situation because he seems to now feel that both legs must be kept apart? The fact is, the "two hots" won't meet in any RV standard circuitry, any more than in any properly wired home. Commercial RVs were always wired to allow one air conditioner and some part of the electric service to run alone when connected to the shoreline since the camp grounds supplied only 110v 30 amp service. When running the RV from the genset, more than 30 amps can be supplied, and the entire RV's wiring is connected to it. With the conventional RV 50 amp service, manufacturers added a power cord that facilitates connecting to the 50 amp outlet just as if the user has connected it to the genset instead. Luis' added switches would defeat the proper operation of normally and "per code" designed RV wiring. I think this is just getting more and more confusing to everyone. If your rig's been wired for 50 amp service, using an adapter to connect to a 30 amp outlet is fine and dandy. They even make adapters to plug into a 15 amp supply. If you have an older 30 amp rig and want to convert to 50 amp, they make modification kits that are comprised of a 50 amp power cable, plug and directions showing how to connect it. This isn't brain science of rocket surgery. I'll stand nearby, see if you can cook me... | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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yes.....seemed like a better answer....If you can wire a house for 110 & 220...then you shouldn't have trouble with a bus...if you don't understand elec. enough to wire a house...please hire somebody to do your wireing | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
Amen, Bro. | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca
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Well then, we often can get 220 volt power at some campgrounds! Good thing I didn't give up on my plans to try and modify the factory Air Conditioning compressor by adding a 5 hp electric motor (to run the A/C reduced speed and capacity). Not that I am intending to make this string any longer than it is. I wonder if there has been any recent "surveys" conducted in NOrth America on just what utility services are available at the campgrounds. Perhaps their are some statisions (compilors of statistics) out there that can direct me to accurate campground source of cenus . I for one appreciate the detailed explanations, even if it is a bit more work to intrepret, memorize and sciphor for accuracy. In the bigger picture that is how we increase personal knowlegde and refine comprehenssion. The "keep it simple notion" is often only applicable for simple problems (unfortunatley). | ||
| airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
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I again I have to assume I am a poster without a name. This trait comes from working with computers since the mid 70s. With very little information I can with a computer discover volumes of private information about individuals. I do not choose to do so but I have the knowledge and skills. With identity theft being a major problem in todays world most folks have no clue how much at risk they are. I use airless_in_mississippi since the first time I posted I needed information regarding the coachs air. All posters indidcated that the best thing to do was to remove the ac. I am not a person that "follows" very well and I continue to seek the information to work on this system myself. This created the origin of this nick. Who I am is a question that very few people ever learn. This year at Bussin volumes of people met me and still do not know who I post as. Those that have known me for a couple of years still dont know what nick I am. As stated I assume this makes me a psuedo poster. or does it just make me PRIVATE. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Very true, truthseeker! Good information is never wasted here! (I absorb as much as I can. These engineers know quite a bit.) Using a 220 motor may or may not be able to power that big bus AC compressor. If you can do it, please post ASAP, since there are many of us that would love to know if it can be done, without having to go the expense of failure.. Using a home air conditioner of one or two ton capacity may suit the needs better than that fairly inefficient bus job. They run on 220 but as was posted earlier, it would not be prudent to assume the advertisement of 50 amp service means you will get 220v as you would at home. Unless clearly and otherwise specified, all the parks really guarantee, is that the receptacle is rated for 50 amps. You may not get 50 amps, or the ability to safely run a 220 appliance on it. I don't want to drag this thread out either. I think anyone that's spent any serious time on the road, knows well enough what's out there. It's not a pretty picture, regardless of the price you pay for the privilege to park for the night. As FF says (in so many words): if you build your coach to work with the minimum of external services, having more will never leave you without. Building it with the assumption you will -always- be provided with -all- the resources you need, will only lead to major inconvenience, sooner or later. Cheers! | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
You're as paranoid as me, airless. Congratulations! | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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jtng, I have been told by a reliable source that FF's shore cord is a 16 guage, 120 volt extension cord thrown out one of the windows. He does not really have to worry about 240 volts. LOL That is doing it his way. Richard | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
HAR.... musta moved up from that brown lamp cord, huh? "It works for me" (easy FF, just funnin' wif you) | ||
| Don/TX
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Must be an upgrade Richard, I distinctly remember it was 18 guage cord. | ||
| airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
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Hey now dont be dissing power cords hanging from the windows. I have two 12guage hanging out until I get the rest of the electric ran. They plug in along side my 30amp and my 50amp into 2 20amp plugs. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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yep....during 'construction'...I bought a 250 foot roll of romex & ran a piece on the left side outside and the right,each with a double wall socket at the end & one to run inside to the middle....sure saves time if you decide you want to work on something & don't have to run a cord...not exactly what you guys were talking about...but..it sure was neat to have power without have to find the end of 'one' cord | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Airless, You're certainly PRIVATE. I don't consider you a pseudo-poster if you're consistent and "own up" to what you say. I respect your desire for anonymity, but within our group, like at Bussin'2005, I question why you remain reticent? Nobody there I got to know is going to "snitch" you off, IMHO. The malevolent one's are like the name I mentioned, Blowhard, who I also believe posts under several other names. The writing style, subjects and approaches taken are too similar. | ||
| Luis (Sundancer)
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OOPs, I messed up by not explaining myself more clearly. What I ment about the two hots meeting each other and not mattering is like when I use that dogbone connector. They come from shore via my 30 amp connector (hot 1, common, ground), get tied together in the dogbone adapter and come into my bus (hot 1, hot 2 (same phase), common, and ground). In this case, it doesn't matter since hot 1 and hot 2 are essentially the same (remember they got tied together in the dogbone connector). There's a lot to this isn't there? I hope I explained myself. Am I missing something? In any case, my switches will make sure even those two never meet each other. Luis | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
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John that newguy, I have been mulling over what you have been saying about the power that is available in campgrounds, and trying to think of facts that would fit with what you say. So far, the only thing that I have thought of was a central power distribution panel with 50 amp double breakers for each PP. Then, 6 guage three conductor plus ground run to the PP. At the PP, there could be a 50 amp, one 30 amp and one 20 amp duplex outlet, with a 30 amp and a 20 amp single breaker. If the 30 amp outlet was fed by a 30 amp breaker from one hot leg and the 20 amp duplex fed by a 20 amp breaker off of the other hot leg, would this setup be illegal? It seems to me that this would describe exactly what you said you found, John that newguy. It seems to me that this could explain the different points of view and some of the confusion over these services. What do you guys think? Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncathcer | ||
| airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
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It is possible Marc that I just do not like people. If you like people they become friends. You get older they get to look like old friends. If you get older then that the next time you see them is in coffins. Wow I just learned something; It is not that I do not like people it is I do not like coffins. No I choose to be a fly on the wall more so then anything. I have been involved with a number of enterprises that required that you remain reticent. A number of my clearances require the same. | ||
| airless in Mississippi (Airless_in_mississippi)
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Is blowhard a nick or what the person does? I only saw three references and they appear to have only been used in this thread and one other. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
No, Tom... At a quite a few campgrounds we stayed at, 30 amp receptacles were simply replaced with 50 amp receptacles and the breaker boxes had either two 30amp breakers or one 30amp and a 20amp. At least one older park had two 15 amp fuses! The point I am trying so desperately to make, Tom... is that one should not -expect- to find what is deemed to be the best by engineering terms. What's really out there, is not what you would expect, if you expect to find technical perfection. The (older) RV manufacturers split the circuits in the RV to allow the genset to provide power to all of it and the shoreline to provide power to most of it, within it's 30 amp limits. Using a "dogbone" and plugging into a 50 amp supply with a 30 amp RV does not give you the ability to run the AC unit and anything else to a total capacity of 50 amps. Trying to do so will only pop a breaker in your RV. So the suggestion that 50 amp service at the pedestal means you'll have more power to use, is erred in that context. If you either adapt your 30 amp RV to utilize a 50 amp supply, or already own a 110v 50 amp RV, using a 50 amp campground supply means only that you can run all of your RV garbage at the same time, rather than be limited to only a partial system, as you would using a 30 amp RV system. Consequently, most older RV parks that we've stayed at, note that idiosyncrasy and provide power to both "legs" of the 50 amp receptacle by whatever they have to use. In most cases, all they've had equated to a 30 amp service that they've pumped into two sides of the 50 amp outlet. So.... when someone that's obviously never been "out there" (judging by their questions), ask what to expect..... providing them with an engineer's prospective does not really answer their question. Or at least in my opinion.... but what do I know, I ain't no engine-ear. HAR.... Thanks, Tom! Great techo-info for future reference! | ||
| Luis (Sundancer)
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For you pilots out there, the mountain isn't where you think it is, the mountain is where it is. Same for power at different Rv sites, the power feed is not necessarily what it should be, it is what it is. I remember a wise man saying to me, test it before you use it and you'll know whats there. Luis | ||
| Jeff (Jeff)
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http://www.camperschoice.com/Product.cfm?ProductGroupId=2375 50 to 30 amp dog bones | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
I don't know what the NEC has to say about connecting a 30 amp cord (#10 wire) to a 50 amp souce. It is certainly not allowed in permanent wiring and could present a fire hazard in an RV. | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
I do know that a lot of new wiring where there is 50amp, 30 amp, and 20 amp do wire the 30 to one leg and the 15/20 to the other leg. This must be legal because most campgrounds use the Mallard (duck on box) Boxes and that is the way they are manufactured. Some campgrounds without 50 amp still have 240vac between the 30 and 20 amp circuits. I have a cheater box I can use to get 240 where this happens. And yes I do use 240vac. We have a Bosch washer and dryer. And some can argue all they want, but 50 amps service is 240vac service with a neutral leg allowing 120vac on each leg or 240vac across them. The 50 amp plug is NOT RV specific but can be found anywhere that sells home electic product. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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Stan, The original question related to connecting a 50-amp cord to a 30-amp source, which presents no safety problems. As you note, dogbones are available which go the other way -- 30-amp cord into a 50-amp source. If you build your conversion with a 30-amp shore cord, I recommend you also install a 30-amp main breaker where your shore service enters the coach. This will mitigate the problem of potentially drawing too much current through the shore cord. Presumably, a problem in the cord itself upstream of the entrance would likely cause a full short fault current, but there is still some level of risk. The code permits such adapters as long as they are properly listed and are for "temporary use." -Sean | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Exactly my point Sean. The shore line breaker is there to protect the service cord. The breakers in the coach provide protection after that. The cord gets its worst abuse right where it exits the coach and where it is anchored inside, before the first junction. Not always insulation damage but loss of conductor size from repeated shot bends will lead to overheating. The only use for that adaptor would be in a 110 volt designed coach where you would want to draw more than 30 amps. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Stan- I always liked to carry adapters for every purpose. There's been a few campgrounds that had "50" amp sites, that had only a 50 amp RV outlet to plug into. With the 30 amp cord on the Winnebago and no adapter, I would not have been able to use the electric service at that spot. It should also be noted, that plugging a 30 amp RV shoreline into a 50 amp service will not net the RV owner one plugged nickle of "more usable power". Only one AC unit, and whatever else runs while using the 30 amp shoreline, will remain to be the only things that can be run. Plugging in that hair dryer, while the microwave, tv, and a few other electric appliances are in use, will still result in tripping the 30 amp RV breaker. And rightfully so, since the usual 110v RV wiring, outlets and switches are only rated for 30 amps. (Man, is thread long, or what?) | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
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John that newguy, thanks for clearing up that bit about the PP 20 and 30 breakers. It sounds like they started out with one 12/2 with ground buried to the PP and one breaker, then added another 12/2 and advertized it as 50 amps. We haven't gotten tangled up with that sort of setup, yet, so I was kind of in the dark. It also helps make a case for the power supplementing Trace inverters. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
It's amazing what you find out there, Tom. Since we frequent the small, unlisted (Woodalls, Campingworld, etc) parks, we managed to find some really unusual things..... But then again, at a "KOA" (that was well acclaimed, over on the west side of Florida) we ran into a hot ground system.. It's a bit unnerving to get zapped as you enter your RV after plugging in... I learned early, never to assume anything, especially - the way things should be done. Cheers! | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
For real convienance just set the coach up so a 15A 120v plug will run AN air cond or all House the internals . If you need 2 or 3 AC just put N on the compass. Visiting friends or relatives usually a 15a socket is all thats avilable , so plan on that alone , anything else is Gravy! FAST FRED | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
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Fast Fred, we don't have a Trace, yet, but we do have a power sharing Heart, and we make good use of it. Take care. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher |
