| Author | Message | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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What I mean is, some pretty good gasoline gensets in the 2800-3000watt range can be had at decent prices and set up to be very quiet. The Hondas are probably the best but aren't the sole option. Each one can run an overhead AC with a bit to spare. Each gets decent fuel efficiency, and together the two will weigh less than a 5500 diesel, esp, a water-cooled diesel as quiet as the smaller gas gensets. Not certain, but I'll bet total cost on the two smaller can be less than the single big diesel. Most of the time, you'd only need one small genset. You'd kick in the other only on a hot day or when pulling some other big load, such as operating electic shop tools. You could mount one at each end of your rig, operating with mostly-separate wiring that could be crossed over in a pinch, allowing a high degree of redundancy, and each would need a fairly small and simple mount point. Granted, neither will run the kind of time-between-overhauls the diesels will pull. But they're easier to work on yourself and most folks could limp along on one while one is down. The only remaining downside is the need to keep an extra fuel type but for a biker who might want extra motorcycle fuel around in any event, this isn't that big a deal. Thoughts? | ||
| Ron Walker (Prevost82)
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Air cooled motors have heating issues in small spaces...but... do it your way Ron | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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yeah...get one or two of those little quiet hondas & mount them on the roof to look like roof air.. plenty of air up there | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Ah. Well...hrmmm...is that solvable with 1/2 dozen or so computer power suppy 12v fans for each unit? | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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seem to stay cool sitting there running,if they didn't...they wouldn't build them....I was more concerned with...will an electic fuel pump pump 'UP' that far....plenty of air while you are going down the road up there | ||
| CoryDane RTSII Rating: N/A |
I can only comment on the obvious.... 2wice the maintenance cost, wear and tear, space used up, noise, fuel usage. And unless they can sychronise together, you can only use them on individual electrical buses. Otherwise, I like the thought, it is intriging. cd | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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space used up ??...up on the roof??...what else ya' going to put up there besides roof air...and ..like he said most of the time..one will do... OR....how about plugging in one of those diesel reefer units in the back window....the kind that are on the front of reefer trailers.... | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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A ThermoKing reefer unit for a 'Dane trailer weighs in at 1835lbs. with the C-201 series engine. ...JJ | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Sigh. I'm not sticking gensets on the freakin' roof. OK. Let's assume they can be mounted "somewhat conventionally", fore and aft of a 40ft rig. Rig in question is odd because the back 12ft or so is a "garage" with roll-in motorcyle bay and "garage decor". Forward of that is a wall with it's own door, "civilized living" runs forward of that. (And yes, I know setting up a back garage is damned difficult; only a few buses would allow the possibility OR I'd have to go with the "big rig motorhome conversion" sort of thing. We'll ignore that for now.) So we've got 28ft of living space, reasonably well insulated, and the AC can be dealt with by a single big overhead unit in the 13.5k - 15k range and a genset that can put out 2800watt continuous and a bit more in surge. When combined with a 1500w inverter for computer gear, a moderate battery bank and maybe a couple hundred bucks in solar panels, that's ALL you need up there in terms of juice. In the garage you've got a smaller AC unit and need juice for power tools and the like. Much simpler wiring, no batteries back there and no inverter. You've got another 2800-class genset. It's isolated from the main coach wiring unless deliberately crossed over allowing the rear genset to power everything up front if the front genset is down. You would VERY seldom need both gensets on at once. And you could do OK on just one...it'd be a bit annoying to have to let the living area heat up some if you're working in the garage but...not a killer. So no, you don't have "twice the wear and tear". Instead, you've got redundancy; you've got reduced fuel usage during the times only one is needed because the smaller genset eats less juice. | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
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My freind had a honda emu 2000 or somthing close. Its a 2000 watt any way. He has it mounted in the old AC space Im his MC5 he has been running it 24/7 for the last year + and now in quarts side AZ. So I dont think heating is a problem it it mounted in a vented compartment. You can find him here on his group and ask him how he likes it. Rayhound is his log in. If the link works http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RVInternetbySatellite/?yguid=148603130 I was thinking about the 3000 watt honda for mine the cost is about 1/3 of the diesels and thay last for longer then you think. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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And then when you look at the db on some of these... Yamaha and Honda are the two biggest names involved. There's also Subaru of all people ("Robin") - check out the specs on the 3200 and 4300 here: http://www.portable-electric-power-generators.com/p_robin_generator.htm Note the sound levels, fuel usage...dayum. Two of the 3200 model are still less expensive than a single high-end 5500 watercooled Diesel. And with the two, you could closely regulate the amount of fuel used by running just one for conservation. Sound levels on each...jeez, even the watercooler diesels seldom run less than 60db, these peak at 58 and drop as low as 49 under light load. These appear to be a slightly better deal than the Hondas & Yamahas, but not by a whole lot. And I'll betcha a lot of guys with 35ft or less rigs could run just fine on one. | ||
| Jim G. - RTS-II
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The Honda inverter equipped models are the ones that can be linked together and they only run as fast as they need to. I have one of the EU3000i generators and it really is quiet when running. Jim G. - 1979 RTS-II | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Whoa. Interesting. WAY simplifies the wiring. Yamaha and some others also have "inverter equipped" models. I assumed that meant cleaner output only. Not really necessary if you're going to run "finicky stuff" like laptops off the inverter/battery bank. All we REALLY need gensets for is AC, charging batteries, heaters/waterheaters/stoves and other "crude use" devices and maybe some power tools. | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
Honda Eu2000's can be linked together...I THINk the 3KW Hondas can, also. Having heard them running, they are essentially silent, even at full-load running. | ||
| Geobus (4108gmc)
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I have used two 1000 EU's since 1999. One has been used alot more than the other and at times I hook them together. The heavily used one is beaten up and more or less abused. But it still always starts on one pull. Ok, on a bad day it takes two pulls. Because they have worked so well I have been thinking of getting a pair of EU 3000's. I think they have an electric start. Does anyone know if you can get a remote start? But can they be hooked together like the 1000 and 2000's. Does anyone know if you can hook a 2000 to a 3000 if the 3000's are capable of being paired up.? Have a great day. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Honda's genset description page is at: http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp ...says "Two like EU series generators can be linked in parallel to increase available wattage through the generator outlets" right next to the 1000 and 2000 models. Doesn't *say* it next to the EU3000is. MSRP on the EU3000is is exactly $2kUS. Froogle shows discounts down to about $1800ish. I checked the product manual on the EU3000is, and yeah, it's "linkable" too. "Linking" needs a "Parallel operation cable" (sold separately), first source I saw had it for $250 for the 3000 model. It's got electric start, but remote start would be tricky, there's extra switches/levers to deal with. Might be possible to do a properly sealed (from the inside) genset bay with a removable interior hatch allowing start access while dry and inside from the rain. Would have to be done VERY carefully though (exhaust fumes!!!). If I can build a rig with a "rear garage" sealed from the living quarters like what I want, I could do "garage interior access" with a bit more safety as I'd have the garage wall as protection for the living area. Two of the 3000s would probably be all the genset 75% or more of us really need peak, and we'd run on only one less than half of THAT time cutting fuel use even further and providing failure redundency, for the less than the cost of a 6kw Diesel watercooler. I'd set one up as "number one primary" to deliberately use it the most, and when it needs service rotate it back to the #2 slot when it comes back in. For that matter, dual 2000s would probably do for some and those are $1080us each. They use less than half the fuel (each) of the 3000s (check the fuel tank size and runtime specs from the link above). | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
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You can add a extra fuel tank like the little one used on boats My friend Rayhound with the MC5 did it works realy good. And I think honda make a EU3000 for RV with remote start. But I think you can make the regular EU3000 a remote start with wiring in a remote key and running a choke cable. Thats what Im looking at doing when I get one. I like the big deisel gen set but having to bend over when you buy one thay cost as much as a small car I will just buy what will work at 1/3 or lees the cost and will out last me. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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and they WEIGH as much as a small car... | ||
| ktrout01 Rating: N/A |
This could work as well as be an inexpensive alternative until the $$$ are there to buy that nice diesel generator. If it works out well, I may not buy a diesel LOL ! | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Apparantly with some searching, you can find 10,000btu overhead AC units. Two of those oughta do at least on a 35ft rig and each could be driven off a 2000 model. By the time you've hit 13,500btu ACs, you're barely past what a single 2000 can accomplish as "2000" on the genset is peak, 1600watt is sustained and a 13,500 AC needs just a smidge under 2000 sustained. But at 10,000btu, watts needed is more like 1300-1400 and even surging peak at startup shouldn't cross 2kw. Huh. Heating can be done fairly well in the 1500watt range if you go electric, or just go propane for heat. ALL of this is WAY ballpark (I'm no expert here!) and should considered a starting point for a modest size rig like a 4106 or something. Get into the "Prevost Look!" and you can chuck all this on it's butt  . | ||
| WA David (Wacoastmci)
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The new GMC pickup has a built-in generator which could serve as a 9600 watt power source. From their website: http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/100_news/hybrid_050304.html "In addition to improvements in fuel economy and emissions, the GM hybrid pickups feature four 120-volt, 20 amp electrical auxiliary power outlets under the rear seat of the cab and in the pickup bed that can accommodate up to four accessories while driving or when parked. With this auxiliary generator capability, the truck's generator can operate when the truck is parked without a key in the ignition and can be used to power anything from tools at a construction site to appliances at a campsite. In the event of a power outage, the hybrid Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups could power tools or appliances for up to 32 hours non-stop. This design shuts the engine down before the tank is emptied, leaving enough gas to drive to a station for refueling. All power supply circuits are protected by a ground fault detection system to prevent overloads and short circuits." | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
Kewl, but a bit big . Still, a toad that IS also a genset is kinda... Wait, kinda *weird* . Back to those Hondas that can be "double chained": In looking through the manuals, it turns out there's a fly in the ointment. Well two, actually. First, you can't chain two dislike, even if they're both Hondas. No lashing a 2000 to a 3000. Second, and worse: you can use the parallel adapter cable to link both at once into your wiring. BUT to switch to single-genset operation, you have to shut everything down, recable (pull the parallel adapter cable) and then fire one back up solo. But there is NO possible "hot powerup" (or powerdown) of the second. You have to manually re-plug stuff. Well dayum. As far as I'm concerned, it would be better to go with my first idea: plan a rig from day one with two sets of 110 wiring, one front and one back, esp. if one is "living area" and the other "shop/work space". Most of the time you'd be using one or the other. Keep the parallel cable around just in case you need it all at once on one set of wires. | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
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I guess you could tow it and plug your bus in to it. But if you drive it off your bus would be with out any power. To Bad GMC did not do any thing for the fuel MPG with the truck only 2 MPG more then the non hybrid truck. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| Jim G. - RTS-II
Rating: N/A |
Today I went to the Power Show in Columbus, Ohio and asked some questions where the Honda generators were. I also picked up the brochure on Honda generators and some of this information comes from it. Three advantages of the Honda inverter models are: 1. They run only at the speed they need to - saving fuel. 2. Stable "clean" power which can support sensitive electronics (computers, etc.) 3. The 1K, 2K, and 3K sizes can be linked together. Also, they are very quiet and the EU3000i is the quietest! I also found out that 2 new models are out but they are not as well enclosed and are not as quiet. They are 5K and 7K sizes and the electric start models can be hooked up remote control. The brochure states that the 3K model is needed for an RV 13,500btu AC. Starting loads must be added to running loads. At Arcadia, one bus had a small, quiet generator running toward the front to keep the batteries up and run small loads. This let the main generator remain off for the most part. To call the GM pick-up a "hybrid" seems to be a bit of a stretch!!!!!!!!! For what it's worth. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Huh. Yeah, I can certainly see using the 1000 model up near (or in?) the battery bay as a charger. Thing is, in terms of power for the dollar, the 2000 is actually the best deal: 1000 = list $790US 2000 = list $1080US 3000 = list $2000US The 1000 uses the least amount of gas of course but the difference isn't too extreme. The 2000 will probably run longer between repairs and can drive more serious power tools, a consideration if field repairs are an issue. And on a power-to-buck ratio, the 2000 wins. | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
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I would wait for the EU5000 Its going to be out early this summer. It should have remote start also. And should be as quiet as the EU3000. The EU3000 here localy $1799. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| Sojourner (Jjimage)
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For all things to consider comparing of one large to two small units is; Good; 1) Small unit is most practical for limited space and rarely need more than one unit’s output. 2) If one fail, still have other to spare. Not so good; 1) Need a parallel kit to synchronize the sine waves, hertz, and voltage output of two Honda Generators. From $115 to $250. 2) Both unit has to be same model. 3) Diesel use about half of gasoline for same power usage. 4) More things to go wrong when you have double internal & external electronic devices in the circuit. 5) Cost is higher than most gasoline version. 6) Combine two Honda EU generator plus accessory can equal to price of good diesel version. Honda site; http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp Gentran parallel kit http://www.mayberrys.com/gentran/parallel.htm E-Bay has Full-power parallel operation cables for Honda EU2000i http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64005&item=3869516090&rd=1&ssPageNa me=WDVW Have your way. For what it’s worth. Sojourn for Christ, Jerry |