| Author | Message | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
It turns out this critter is still available: http://mogsrus.com/crown.htm As I want a rig that will allow a motorcycle bay in the back, I pretty much have to go custom regardless. That thing would be a killer starting platform in such event. *Assuming* it checks out as OK, and the vendor has a pretty good rep in the German 4x4 field he normally deals with, here's my best shot at what to do with it: http://www.equalccw.com/goingpostal3.gif The sliding door in front of the garage would basically be a glass patio door, two sections of 3ft wide. That would allow getting big appliances in from the back. It would also allow me to make very minor tweaks down the road (narrow the bed a little, trim some interior walls) to make it wheelchair accessable...long story but I have medical issues in my legs that makes that a possibility 15 years or so down the line. The sliding door also works better if the garage is "very crammed" with bikes. This would be a liveaboard for one or two. Other stuff: I've played around with shortening the garage down to 8ft total to see if I could get a wider master bed in (60" wide, which would be a queen). Works, kinda, but...there's issues like the right rear wheelwell, and you get to the shower through the throne. Other than comments on the basic plan, can anyone recommend a good conversion house willing and able to do a "creative yet basic working setup" well short of the "Prevost Brothel Look"? Note that the walls on this thing are already double-thick and insulated, the windows are already perfect for RV use and the interior height is already 7'3". I am hoping those factors will make the up-front shell cost worth it even if I have to pay the whole $11,500US. I've also looked into the parts issue. The major bus parts are common and available from plentiful old junk Crown schoolbuses. I would also seek out a junkyard schoolie with a 671 motor and do a grab'n'stash on the oilpan and oil pickup tube. Those allow conversion of any 671/671T to a laydown configuration; unlike the Cummins, the Detroits use the same block sideways or straight up. So if the Cummins blows and I can't find another laydown block, I've got another option... Past that this thing is all-aluminum, zero rust. I think I can keep it running 20+ years. My cash is coming somewhere between 2/15 and 2/26 or so. All advise welcome, but if the cash amount is (as expected) over $100,000, then I'm probably going for this pending advise otherwise  . | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
I'd honestly go for a 45 footer. I have a 35 ft bookmobile that I *WAS* going to convert to a motorhome... but no matter how I worked it, there just wasn't enough room for anything once I had things laid out on the floor... It just didn't suit any need I had.... It's going to be turned into my "shopmobile"... mobile woodworking/cabinetry shop. I ended up getting the biggest thing I could find... a 60 foot articulated bus... I still have to go pick it up... and the job I'm going to be going after in 6 weeks isn't even in the country, so it'll sit in storage for a year or two now.... but the money I'll be making will be well worth the wait. Just my advice.... go with a 40 or 45 footer. -Mac | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
A rear-engine bus basically precludes doing a motorcycle ramp in the back. Trailers annoy me. I *could* go with an Eagle which allows opening up holes in the side of the living area without hurting structural integrity too much - that's why you can do a slideout on an Eagle that would be way unwise on an MCI/GMC. So instead of a slideout, set up a "hanger bay door" and put an area of 8ftx8ft "shop" at the very rear. Ohhhkay...but now you have to enter it by bike driving up a LONG and TALL ramp. Worse: there ain't enough room to turn around in there so to come down you have to roll backwards, and you're like 4ft+ off the ground. And if the removable ramp is wide enough to make this "safe" then it weighs like 150lbs. It can't be a drop-down ramp because that wouldn't be long enough. Hell, I don't think even 8ft would be long enough so where in hell are you gonna put this ramp?! Whoops. Look, I've been a biker for a LONG time. Every time I move, I rent a U-haul or whatever with a ramp in the back, stash my bike(s) right inside. Driving up those and then braking like hell at the right point is *tricky*, OK? Even in the best of circumstances. I had a friend who had a job driving U-Hauls to wherever they were needed...the job description said "biker and bike required" - you drove to the truck in the bike, loaded it up, dropped the rig off, took your bike out, left in that. Simplified logistics. He managed to crash once coming up the 2ft wide ramp . With the Crown, the rear bumper is about 2.5ft up. That can be dealt with via a 6ft tall ramp, 4ft or more wide and drop-down. Perfectly safe to drive up or back down on a bike. I have a variant of this Crown concept that I don't know whether or not it's possible, in which I "graft" another 6ft or so to this same platform by attaching a typical enclosed motorcycle straight onto the back via a frame/bumper extension. From the side it would look like a smaller box stuck onto a bigger box: http://www.equalccw.com/goingpostal2.gif BUT I dunno how practical that is. But even without that, consider that with no rear engine at all, "35 feet" here is equivelent to more like 37ft worth of MCI9, GMC4106 or similar intercity hauler and equivelent to almost 40ft worth of transit (RTS, what have you). Plus with the front door out of play, I can run the living room functionally right up to the front glass, regaining at least 3ft of functional parked living space not available in most rigs. Then there's the overhead cabinets possible with such a square and tall box! ---------- On the frame/bumper/garage extension concept: A lot depends on how beefy the frame is down there (it DOES go clear to the back bumper on this thing, unlike a schoolie equivelent). I'd still have to make compromizes; with the "rear extension" concept I'd have to mount all water tanks forward of the rear axle for weight balance and frame stress issues and that may make the gray/black tank problematic. Somebody already put an extended custom 147gal stainless diesel tank in the middle somewhere and between that and the engine/drivetrain there may be trouble in terms of wastewater housing under-frame up there. Sticking with the 35ft platform, gray/black to the rear of the axles is doable. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A |
Jim - Me thinks what you want is something like this: http://www.kingsleycoach.com/frames/gallery_products/pages/usedlawsongroves.html Scroll to the bottom for the floor plan. RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Philris Rating: N/A |
I was in a Kingsley that had a garage built into the rear below the bedroom for two full size bikes. As for a low ramp, the floor in the garage area dropped down using hydraulics to ground level with a slope of about 10 degrees. Problem with it was it was 47 feet long over 14 feet high. It was beautifully done with great systems, a 500 HP cat and 12 (?) speed autoshift. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
Uh huh. First, except for the slideouts the Kingsley doesn't really have any more floorspace inside than that old Crown! Second, I don't have $150k to toss around. I think I can keep the costs on that Crown conversion down near $35k - $40k. The closest I could come to that Kingsley would be to start with: http://racingjunk.com/exec/ca/view/324417/1998-Volvo-Toterhome-wCar-Garage.html It's a good deal, but the living area is currently REAL short. I could put up another wall in the middle of the garage, insulate forward of that and have a back bedroom in the 10-11ft range. So I'm out somewhere near $70k...and in California, my yearly vehicle reg fees are just painful. (With the Crown, it's registered motorhome right now in AZ, I buy it for $11.5 and that's *it* in terms of yearly fee calculations at the DMV.) Even with that Volvo I *still* wouldn't have the living space of that freaky old Crown because it's living room runs to within a *foot* of the front bumper! I have however strongly considered doing the overhead bedroom thing! With 7' vertical to play with, the sort of bike I'm into can fit in 4' giving 3ft of bed. The problem then is getting a walkway going from rear to front so as to allow the rear door to be primary...but there *might* be a way around that. Maybe. Or there's the old "graft a VW bus on the roof for a bedroom" gag but that's just SO tacky . Maybe an old Mercedes for a "touch of class" ROFL! ---------- Seriously though, one problem with the "upper bed" is that it can't be made ADA compliant. Look at the top layout here: http://www.equalccw.com/goingpostal3.gif With only very minor mods, this CAN be. Narrow the rear bed and wall in front of it half a foot, pull one of the two "dinette" chairs and trim the wall behind those, convert the shower and closet next to it into a tub and the thing is wheelchair compatible end-to-end. I have reason to have to plan for that possibility. Sigh. | ||
| Tim Broussard Rating: N/A |
3(?) years ago at Arcadia there was a bus, Eagle I believe, that turned a luggage bay into storage for two Harleys. Floor dropped down to ground then back up with hydraulics. With doors closed there was absolutely no indication that they were inside. Neat. Someone that was there might know more. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
Hmmmmmmmm. Nice, but...expensive. And still doesn't give you a "shop area". It also means your bay isn't part of the coach's structural integrity anymore; you might be able to get away with that on an Eagle but certainly not on a Bufallo, MCI or whatever. And you've still only got "bike storage". To me that 9ft - 10ft long garage is more than just bike storage. The workbench extends across the top of the front-load washer/dryer. There's enough room on it for a mini-mill, small drill press, bench grinder and probably a reloading press to boot. Opposite side there's a drop-down bench for use when the bikes are out, for leatherworking, kydex press, welding, whatever. I can pull into a weekend biker get-together, roll my bike(s) out, chain 'em to the bumper and open a walk-in kydex foundry for custom crash armor, cellphone holders that double as crash armor for the phone (think about it: you've ate it, you want the phone crunched or lost?), or to a gun show and make custom holsters and knife sheaths. If I widen the rear hatch enough and reinforce the door frame, I can use it as the mount for an engine hoist for bike repairs. BMW Boxers fr'instance have to be lifted in order to remove the front or rear frame assemblies; there's no single frame, both are bolted to the front and rear of the engine/tranny. So to do a clutch job, you hang it in mid-air and unbolt the whole back half off - rear suspension, subframe, tranny in that order, basically cutting the bike in half. Not as bad as it sounds so long as you have a "crane" good for 600lbs. Upshot: I think a very efficiently laid out 25ft motorhome living area with a 10ft garage on the back could REALLY work out, at least for me. | ||
| Captain Ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A |
You live out in California, call jessie james or Discovery Channel and have Monster Garage turn an eagle into a Rolling garage/motor home. If you can put a slide out in you can also put in a hydrolic lift gate like on 2 story car haulers. With an awning on the side you would have cover for your motorcyles and a place to display your craft at the rallies out of the weather. The lift gate could be as simple as having a cable system on a garage door opener type shaft that just rolls the cable around it. with a bar at the bottom so the bottom of the door can hook in to it when its raised to floor hight the the cable would finish closing the door like the ramp door on my trailer. There are lots of ways to get exactly what you want if you use some creativity and think every thing through get ideas from other people. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
Welll...one thing I *did* think of is using a wheelchair lift to get a bike into a shop area mounted in the rear-middle somewhere. A good example is the RTS. The wheelchair lift on the back doors is rated 600lbs. That's adequate, barely, as long as I'm not on the bike. Two problems though: 1) You've got to lash the bike to the lift plaform somehow. Bungee cords? Otherwise you risk it flopping over. Kind of a pain, but doable. 2) Much worse is that none of these wheelchair lifts and access hatches (including what's on newer ADA-compliant Grayhounds) are in the very rear. They're typically about 2/3rds of the way back. So you're talking about constructing a box area with a side-aisle around it, to allow access to a rear bedroom. Now, that can work, but it limits the width of your shop space. And getting into said shop is a pain on ex-Grayhounds or similar: you need a freakin' ladder once the bike is out. Or get to it only from an inside door from the coach. On a city transit, you can use the back steps but that cuts severely into your floor space. See the problem? Now...with the Crown, zero garage floorspace is eaten by steps. Those are outside the coach, or there's no steps at all, you walk up a ramp. The garage is also full-width. The garage is using floorspace that in an MCI/GMC/RTS/whatever would be filled with *engine*. Now, I *do* have a fallback plan in case this Highway Postal isn't available or has some major frame issue I don't know about (both unlikely, but let's "factor Murphy" for a sec. The fallback involves a 40ft tandem-axle Crown or Gillig mid-engine critter like this: http://rvtrader.com/rvdetail.php?id=71126 What I'd have a GOOD shop do is some major mods at the rear end. The rear bumper gets pulled, a "hatchway" 6ft wide and 6ft tall gets cut into the back, whatever is left of the bed is ripped out, the frame gets stretched backwards and 5ft worth of motorcycle box trailer gets jammed straight up to the rear, extending the sucker to 45ft instead of 40ft. 5ft worth of the original back bedroom gets walled off; from there back 10ft to the loading ramp is the new garage, and a 38" bed goes sideways in front in a greatly shortened rear bedroom. All existing kitchen/bath/living room stuff is unmolested . This would be major. And there's a huge lurking "gotcha": in both the Crown and Gillig designs, the frame stops about 3ft back of the rearmost axle. From there it forks sideways, and then smaller arms go backwards cradling the cargo bay. They did this to provide a "crash crumple zone" as this was "schoolbus engineering" (even though that particular Gillig and some Crown tandems were intercity types). Which means supporting a garage is a major engineering change; the only reason I think it's practical at all is the massive potential load bearing of those double duallies, and that the diesel tank is forward of the rear axles. Still, we're talking about a $10k mod for that alone. And between the way funky looks and the 45ft length, I suspect a lot of potential parking spots are gonna do this "what the HELL?" number. The Crown Highway Postal stands alone as the only Crown that has main frame beams going all the way to the rear bumper. No "schoolie thinking" - it was meant to deal with wall to wall paper. | ||
| Captain Ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A |
You would only need 1 tie down on the kick stand side. the gate could be romote controled so you ride on gate thus eliminating need for tie down and steps to get in and out. Myself I like a seperate trailer for bike and work area. I love my harley but don't want to smell gas and oil all night, diesel is bad enough. plus I pretty much live in my bus and want all the living and storage space I can get. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
No, riding the bike on a wheelchair lift is right out. A BMW boxer weighs 550. I weigh 280. Lift supports 600. Whoops. Take a look at the upper of the two floorplans here: http://www.equalccw.com/goingpostal3.gif That's currently my favorite. The barrier between garage and living area would be this: http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=149980-40446-47839 Note how it's meant to be a fairly energy efficient household door; it should also act as a pretty effective smell barrier between bikes and bedroom. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
Here's a GREAT set of pics on an MCI wheelchair lift setup: http://www.busnut.com/4sale/19.html (new shell just went up on the classifieds) It's a good setup for a wheelchair user, but that chair platform isn't long enough for a real bike. Harley, BMW, fuggeduboudit. So if you ditch the wheelchair gear altogether, you could use a removable ramp. Fine. But for a 5ft rise, you MUST have at least a 10ft ramp and that's way hairy; 12ft would be better. And it has to be 2ft wide. All-aluminum, maybe one guy can manhandle it, but where the hell do you put it? Hang it on hooks along the side, above the cargo bays? OK...but now you get to a boondock and you've got this 12ft thingie sticking out the side?! And you've still gotta build a "bike room" that's air-sealed for it up in the middle of the coach. Ah...no. I don't think so. Not when the interior floor real estate of the Crown is only about 3ft less than this MCI, at half the cost once you add in the door mods and ramp in the Crown. |