| Author | Message | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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OK...this is downright warped. But. I need to know the roof height on an 870 transit bus. External height, but NOT factoring in such items as rooftop AC, etc. Here's why. Quoting Ron at: http://www.ronthebusnut.com/forum/ftopic18.html >>They are good driving and riding coaches. Also very good for taking to races and sitting on the roof. Good flat roof with no seams and very strong.<< OK. Second step, take one of these: http://www.ironhorsetrailers.com/our-product.html or: http://www.toycarrier.com/sportbikecarrier.htm The latter is only $3k. You know where this is going, right? Right. Pull the axle off the trailer. Bolt it to the roof looking like a way oversize AC unit from hell. Get a looooong ramp  . OK, it's pretty psycho. But there's a really nicely built 870 right on Ian's for sale area, not far from me, he already has highway gears in it and other than no garage it's just about the perfect critter. There's another better set of pics here: http://users.cwnet.com/~thall/transits.htm Point is, how tall is that thing? 10ft? 11? With no frame/axle/suspension those trailers are about 6ft. How tall do semi trailers run, and would I still be under that? Betcha he'll take around $23 - $24k and I'd rather have that than an old Crown... | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
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That's Jim Maxwell's bus. It has a nice tow hitch- whatsa matter with a trailer? That is a really nice bus- if it were me I would think twice before tearing it up... if you can get it for that price it is a frikkin bargain, buddy. Good luck Jim! Bob | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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I have no plans whatsoever to "tear it up". Ron seems to know a lot about how these are constructed and I plan to ask his opinion on whether or not such a "pod" on top would be harmful. I would assume though that these: http://www.customcyclecarrier.com/phoenix-motorcycle-pods.html (minus the metal undercarriage/axle/etc) ...would be no worse than your average "cargo pod" people strap to the roof of cars, let alone buses. | ||
| Doug Wotring
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thats second trailer option is no deal......you can get a brand new 12 foot trailer for 3k and be able to use it for alot of other purposes. | ||
| Ron Walker (Prevost82)
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"OK...this is downright warped. But." This is beyond warped. IMO It would be "wayyyyy" over height /w the pod on top....and what do you do with the 40ft ramp to get the bikes up top....don't forget the crane that has to tag along behind the bus to lift the ramp on and off the bus. You'd be dragging every power & tel line that you came across with that thing on the roof. Ron | ||
| BrianMCI Rating: N/A |
Impractical at best... better off making a cabinet for a bike somewhere in the side of the bus ...or use the trailer as it was intended. Brian | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Yeah. If I have to live with a trailer, I'll shop around for a used "mini toy hauler" in the 18ft range, get a "guest bedroom" outta the deal. Hey, RJ started this. I'll let him tell you what he's up to with my poor brain. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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Nope, ain't gonna say nuttin'. . . | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Grrrrrr. OK. Here's what started this. EMail from RJ: ------------ RJ Long wrote: Jim - Suggest you contact Bus Conversions Magazine, 7246 Garden Grove Blvd, Westminister, CA 92683 (714-799-0062) and request a copy of the December 2004 issue. When you get your copy, check out the article on page 50. . . That's all I'm going to tease you with. . . RJ PD4106-2784 ------------ That led me to ponder how in hell you'd add a garage to an 870. RJ says it ain't the roof . OK, fine. SO WHO ELSE HAS A COPY OF THIS FRIGGIN' MAGAZINE!? | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
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just open up your mouth... | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
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you know it can be done... go for it!!!!! Way cool | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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Bob - You're terrible!!! ROFLMAO!!! I gave Jim another clue privately, but he's got to drive across town tomorrow to solve the mystery, so let's all let him do his homework, eh? This is too much fun!!! | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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I may be stuck until the weekend. Sigh. Come on now. What the hell was done to this 870? | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
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This is fun! | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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OH, Jim - If you wait 'till the weekend, the place will probably be closed. . .  | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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DAMMIT. OK, please, will you give me the basics here? What the hell did he do? | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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I ain't sayin' nuttin'. . . | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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I ain't laughing anymore. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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An AM Gen'l had an immensely wide rear door, 4' or so. The 870 rear door was only 30" and was framed w/integral monocoque framing (2x5 tempered steel tube) and I attest to the fact that if you so much as cut the door sill frame you will have a sagging bus that has to be jacked back into place and fixed. Fortunately, I placed cribbing under it before I cut it and discovered the sagging tendency when testing for it with hydraulic jacks. By the way, it's 9-7 to 9-10 high, depending on where u measure and the amount of air in the bags. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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I managed to make it over there at 4:00pm. Henry was already gone (sigh) and worse, even if he'd been there the bus isn't anymore. BUT I talked to one of his neigbors in this cluster of hot-rod and auto repair shops and they knew "RJ's secret". Henry cut the whole nose off and mounted it on a giant piano hinge on one side, giant latch on the other. The whole nose swings out, dashboard and all. You run stuff up inside via a ramp up past the driver's seat. Huh. Well THAT'S different. Apparantly the bus isn't a finished live-aboard at this point. Even the windows haven't been done correctly, it's still in "shell" form but this one bizarre piece of engineering is apparantly finished and debugged, although I have my doubts re: waterproofing!!! But, let's assume this does work. Issue one is you gotta get rid of the original front door, or the original front steps become a "speedbump from hell". That leaves the back doors. 'Cept the finished 870 available already has the BACK door filled. Hrm. Well it WOULD be kinda bizarre to have a bus with NO VISIBLE DOOR WHATSOEVER unless you knew the secret of the swing-out nose <grin!>. Would be one HELL of a theft deterrent measure . I'd also lose the passenger seat. But that aside, Jim Maxwell's living room floorplan IS compatible with a modest 5'x9' or so "garage" in the very front passenger side area. I'd have to wall it off in plexiglas versus anything opaque so I can see to that side to drive, and I wouldn't have a "front passenger seat" anymore but those issues aside, net living space inside really wouldn't drop all that much! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Well I know Henry's business name. Google doesn't find it but I assume a 411 search will ("Henry's Hot Rods", Rancho Cordova). I'm tempted to price out his cost to duplicate that bizarre "hatch" (assuming I approve of the engineering on the one he's done so far!) and buy Maxwell's bus... | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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I have to tell u, and I recognize that just about anything can be done, but that is about the screwiest idea for a garage door I could imagine. There is a harness of wire and air lines running in the middle that come all the way to the front bumper that is immense, I'm talking every wire circuit that was on the original bus is within that harness. Then, presuming you gut the front part of the living room, you have the matter of 2 wheel wells that are now incorporated into furniture surrounding them, lounger on one side and entertainment ctr on the other. There is 4' between the wheel wells and they rise 23" at the walls, 18" at the isle. Now we get to the crucial drawback and safety. The steering column is connected to the power steering assy on the axle via a u-jointed shaft. This link would have to be cut and made to dis-joint and re-connect w/a degree of precision. Currently, the front "pod" is a welded structural tubular steel cage assy that attaches into the floor and roof assy. (1 pc. jig laid-up) and it is strong. I have lifted the front wheels by jacking under the bumper. It certainly won't be that strong after this proposal and I shudder to think what would happen to the driver if he somehow nosed this thing into something with a hinged and latched nose on it, and seated in the nose at that. We won't even discuss the amount of work involved to build this proposal. IMHO, the 870 was not built for this kind of tom-foolery. Sort of like a 757 and a C-130: would you cut the nose assy or tail assy off a 757 so you could haul Bradley's in it? I don't think so. I really do think a skoolie puller is more appropriate and adaptable for what u want. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Heh. Well not having seen it yet, but having seen the pics of your bus, and reading your description, I have a guess as to what he did. Look at your own pic here: http://users.cwnet.com/~thall/images/jim_maxwell01.jpg I *think* he split it just above the bumper. That would allow a lot of the stuff you're talking about to remain intact, esp. bumper strength and probably air lines. I wouldn't know about the steering wheel without looking at it. Some of the wiring would get re-routed/lengthened, headlights and stuff. I'm assuming the hinge is driver's side. I dunno...yeah, it seems crazy as a bedbug. But if it DOES work...well again, let's look at one of your own pics: http://users.cwnet.com/~thall/images/jim_maxwell03.jpg Right side, there's either a total of two single seats or three. Kinda hard to tell. Doesn't matter - I can live with just the one rearmost. Pull the forward seat(s), pave over the wheelwell, you've got 8ft of length. And I only need about 4.5ft width, so there's still a walkway past it between that and the driver's seat. If the front tire of the bike ends up on the wheelwell, no big deal, just do a ramp up to it. The other side with the couch is intact so that's no biggie. I'm not talking about "whole front end is a garage now". I dunno. IF the engineering on this "Michael Jackson Nose Job From Hell" works, then the concept DOES work for your bus. Big "if" though. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
If he surrounded the "open nose" with a strong new square "frame" and then gusseted the corners, AND you left the bumper structure intact(!!!), this wouldn't be all that crazy. Only question I'd have would be leaks but even then...if the new "square" added to the front was stainless and curved much like a gutter in cross-section, any rain that got between the front "door" and rear body panels would be channeled sideways and down. This would be on top of a rubber weather strip to reduce heat losses. I dunno, it seems like this IS possible. As to the comparisons with jets: this kind of "loading ramp huge nose door" is very common on big cargo jets, both military and civilian. http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/boeing747-400f/boeing747-400f4.html The technique is rather common: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/freighters_gallery.html -------- Besides. Look at the comedy value. Some smokey pulls you over. He tells you to open the door and let him in. You reply that it's unlocked, he can come right in, just unlatch the door. "What door?" "It's an intelligence test!" (pick up a paperback book...) | ||
| Vin (Billybonz)
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Jim - A garage seems like a high priority with you. Have you looked into a truck conversion? I'm thinking you have since your floor plan on the Crown postal bus seems real similar to many I have seen...maybe just cowinky-dink. Anyway, I saw a coach, MCI or the like, that had a rear clam shell type hatch in the rear with ramps that went up over the engine with a car driving up into the clam shell. I have search everywhere on the net looking for the pic but no luck. It was on a site with buses that had Harleys and those little euro cars stowed in baggage compartments and such. Really radical conversions. I'm not suggesting you do that but after reading about hinged noses it made me think about it. I guess anything is possible with enuff time, money, skill, vision, mental illness, etc.... Vin | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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OK. I got it. Back of the bus, big letters, neatly printed: "ASK ME HOW I PERFECTED THE TELEPORTER!" | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Vin, Basically, I need to operate in urban areas and do funky parking sometimes. And I have to be real concerned about security in general. So keeping everything in one box makes life WAY easier. Second, I'm trying to keep the budget inside of about $35k - $40k. I've got between $90k and $180k coming REAL soon (3/11 at the very latest is the news from the court) but it ain't like I can spend all that, it's taxable next year for starters . I *think* the Crown Postal can be done for that but it'll be tight as hell. Jim Maxwell's 870 is a better bus, he's asking $27,500. Depending on what this "nose job" goes for...it's an option. A major truck conversion is NOT an option. Every once in a while I see something barely adequate but flawed somehow in the $55k range but still...I suspect a factory Crown's box is more solid than some of these add-on-to-a-Freightliner thingies. | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
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Let's see, $40K, 27.5 for the bus, leaves 12.5 for a trailer, you can get a helluva nice trailer for that- and have a NICE bus and a NICE trailer READY TO GO NOW- know what I mean? Think about it... good luck Jim, Bob | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Yeah, and you're parked somewhere funky and $10k worth of BMW motorcycle in said trailer is gone... Also, you're headed down fairly narrow streets and if you have to back up you're screwed. Remember, a transit bus can go down some pretty narrow streets...urban residential areas, etc. Back roads. Trailer is annoying never mind security issues. | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
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I know where they can go- I have one in my driveway. Neoplan AN-440-3. I drive it, and I am a paraplegic (hand controls). I am not scared to back it up either, with or without a trailer. I also have a Metroliner coach at SOD. Same turning radius. You can see it if you click on my name. If you are so worried about getting ripped off, maybe get some insurance? Or maybe get a Brinks truck instead of a bus? Or cut the front off of the 870, it's your time and $$$. The one in BC mag looked really cool to me, but unless you do all the work yourself I have doubts you will stay within your budget. Have you considered a coach with a heavy duty wheelchair lift? Mine will lift 600 lbs- sorry, it is not for sale. I imagine it would have lifted my V65 Magna, my last bike, way back when I could ride. Just a little addition to make the lift longer. Whichever way you go, do it YOUR way. I was only trying to point out that you can get a really nice bus you can enjoy right away. Anyway, please let us know how it turns out. I am going to shut up now. Best of luck Jim!!! Bob | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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My last word on this. A trailer hauler: I know someone that hauls a Mercedes conv., I know someone that hauls a Jaguar XJ, and I know another that hauls 2 Harley Custom 3 wheelers; all in trailers. It is very do-able to "open" the front door again and have near 4' of access. It is not feasible to "open up" the rear door as that area contains critical structure that is spaced at 30-32". It is not feasible or safe to open the front "cage" as that contains critical safety structure for the front of the bus. Given, apparently you know of someone that has done it; that does not mean that it is safe to do. I have seen loads of mods that people have made to buses that no reasonably sane 12 yr. old would even consider. I also recall that you mentioned that this modified front-end bus you refer to is currently incomplete--how long has he been working on this modification and just when does the expected completion date occur? Do you really want to spend literally years "building" a bus while you really yearn to hit the road? Whatever, but IMHO, whoever cut the front end of an 870 open to have a garage door needs professional help with his thought processes. | ||
| Ron Walker (Prevost82)
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Hear ... hear well said James. Ron | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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James, you're correct that this mod probably isn't practical. I'll check it out but I agree, it looks doubtful. But God it's funny as hell though, isn't it? | ||
| gillig-dan Rating: N/A |
Jim, Often you post some of the most well-thought-out and intelligent threads this board has had since I began to follow it... This one however makes me wonder if your not quite chemically balanced lately. Buy the Crown or a front engine Bluebird and cut a hole in the back. My opinion, Gillig-Dan | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Well it was all for nothing. Talked to the guy that built the "nose job 870" - you guys ain't gonna believe this, but part of what swings out is the DRIVER'S SEAT, and steering wheel. He's able to roll a whole car up in there . He claims the end result is probably stronger than original, because there's this massive steel "window frame" making sure nothing sags when it's open. Now here's the kicker: he won't do another for less than $50k. So there ain't no way this is happening to Jim Maxwell's rig . On the upside, he's willing to sell the whole thing for $35k but the rest of it is in all-stock condition...original windows, etc. GOOD condition apparantly, the thing has less than 100,000 total miles, zero rust... But still, wouldn't possibly be livable for less than $25k more and that would be bare-bones. So...if anybody else wants THE most bizarre shell in history...Henry's Street Rods, 916-852-6350. Owner/builder is David Henry. Gillig-Dan: hey man, just lookin' at options and trying to guess (wrongly at first) how this thing worked based on RJ's deliberately vague hints of an 870-based toy hauler . But seriously, yeah, if I can make that Postal work out I'll do that, otherwise some other mid-engine critter and open up the back is the way to go to get in under $35 - $40k. | ||
| gillig-dan Rating: N/A |
I was just giving you a hard time Jim. There have been people on this board that have used wrecked travel trailers for their conversions. A few $K bought a wrecked trailer that had just about every part and system you would need to convert a bus shell. So, $35K for a good shell $3k - $5k for the interior, plumbing, heating, fixtures, inverter, etc. from a wrecked travel trailer leaves $20k for labor and incidentals. Gillig-Dan | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Well...I've looked at the "old travel trailer" option for parts. Problem is, a lot of those parts aren't GOOD parts. They're...mediocre at best. You seldom see an inverter for example and the ones you do see are crap. The water heater won't be real efficient, the fridge for damn sure won't be, and so on. IF I can budget for it, I'd rather spend money up-front on "good stuff" - high efficiency, long-term-boondock bits of good reliability and just not have to worry for a long time. At this point it looks like the Crown Postal will come out to $40k or so all total. That's with GOOD parts, garage built in, etc. There's a couple other possible plans involving other buses that work out to the $35k range, including a decent 4106 @ $25k or so and a good trailer, or modifying the back of a 35ft Crown Highway Transit that's available already converted properly at $20. In fact, let's talk about that latter. It's a 1964 (sigh) but it looks good and the drivetrain is good: 262Turbo small cam Cummins and a 10sp Roadranger tranny (yeah!). And it comes with a spare Roadranger 10 and a rebuildable pancake BIG cam Cummins that's hard as hell to find. The shell is in good shape, dual ACs, and the rear is very odd for a Crown: has a single big rectangular rear window of about 7ft across. Which is...odd for a Crown. It means there's no "frame structural support" across that rear panel, and THAT means it'd be easy to pull all that and turn it into a hatchback or even short 3ft or so extension and hatch. This also suggests that the rear frame may be stronger than a Crown schoolie, I don't know about that yet without inspecting but it's "only" about 250 miles away. But if Crown didn't put in a "crash crumple zone" due to this not being school-issue, that would explain why the rear end/window is so open. It might have something more akin to a Postal frame under there and that would be perfect for supporting a garage. I'd have to add an inverter (I'd go with a 1000w Prosine for $1,000 as the lighting is all 12v already) and would prefer to swap out the fridge to a Danfoss-based. But still, even with "rear hatch mods" in the $5k - $7k range, I'm out the door around $30k...definately within budget even if the court-ordered cash now due 3/11 is at the lower end ($90k). |