| Author | Message | ||
| Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
Rating: N/A |
Old Two Dogs compelled me to write up something as a warning to the Rian's (who are presently heading down to TX to pick up an RTS that may or may not have engine problems), and anyone else like them that are tempted to buy a bus or conversion in an auction-style way. I was just going to reply to their thread, but maybe it's better as a topic with its own heading. My reply is thus... I’m with TD on this one. Let me be the voice of experience for ‘ya. I’m on my THIRD bus in a year because of buying them hastily through the ePlace. When you buy stuff on the ePlace, you’re told, “it’s a binding contract, blah, blah, blah.” So, you feel compelled to follow through with the transaction. Then, you schlep your cookies half-way across the continent to (hopefully) drive home a bus you’ve never seen before. The Seller is always is a hurry to get the money and hand you the keys and the title and you’re just hoping the blasted thing will run long enough to get you home. Or even stop when you need it to. Speaking of stopping, my first bus was a nice-looking MC8 that just happened to be a nightmare of rust and brakework. It sat out of state for eight months because I couldn’t move it (locked park brakes). I had to spend a week under it, and about $300 worth of Mohawk parts to fix the brakes. After being under it for that long, I soon decided it wasn’t a good candidate. What’d I do, cut my losses? Heck no, I panicked and traded it for another bus in Montana. Did the next ePlace bus solve my woes? Hardly. In some ways it was worse. While not rusty, and with working brakes, it was much, much uglier. Ah, but it was half-converted... BUT half-converted shabbily. My conversion plans involved ripping out most of their "handiwork". So now I’ve got another bus to get rid of. And it’s a transit that won’t fetch near as much $ as a parlor coach. True to form, last month I bid on and “won” an eBay Eagle “steal” of a band bus down in Tulsa. This “corrosion-free coach” actually had wavy sides and two of the bays were rusted right through to daylight below. The “recent $17k generator” was also rusty, and all connections were made with duct tape. The kicker was the “black and grey water tanks” the Seller promised me it contained were really a three-inch PVC pipe that dumped straight on the ground. I’m not kidding. What’d I do? Steeled by my previous experiences, I not just walked, I ran away. The Seller was hurriedly trying to get over me from across town, and kept begging me to wait so we could “talk about it.” There was nothing to say. What was I really risking… a “negative” rating? Big deal. At least I didn’t give him a deposit. Never give them a deposit. If it’s misrepresented in even the slightest way… Just walk, no RUN away. Now… contrast all of this to my last bus purchase… The bus is 20 miles away, from an ad listed right here on BNO. I waited over a month for the Seller to come so I could see it. Patience is good. I was able to research the particular make of bus. I dutifully poured through the archives on BNO, containing some standout gems of prose and experience written by the estimable RJ and FF, among others. Once at the bus, I got to spend five hours with it before I decided whether to buy it. The bus is already converted. It does need some work, but it’s on a storage lot that costs me $30/month for as long as I need it there. Napa is a block away. An RV parts store is three blocks away. I can work on the bus there in the lot, and work at my leisure. In fact, I’m heading out there right now. It’s going to be a sunny, Colorado winter day, and I’m looking forward to spending some quality time with my new coach. I’m not stressed. I’m not 2,000 miles from home, faced with the prospect of limping a bus home in the wintertime. Life is good. The ePlace is a great place to buy heater hose, oil filters, and marker lamps. But for something as complex and fraught with the specter of a literal black hole of time and money like a bus? Let my loss(es) be your gain… Signed, Two Bus Brian a recovering ePlace bus buyer | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
nothing wrong with "E"...if ya' see something VERY interisting...get on a plane & buy it before the auction closes.... | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
Rating: N/A |
We should save this for all prospective bus buyers to read. Good words, Brian. Bob | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
Good Write-up and sound advice. E-bay is a dangerous prospect for the novice and especially so on higher price-tag items (anything more than electronic gadgets and such). My opinion is that it opened up the World to every swap-meet huckster in the country. However, there are some good buys to be had and some very honest sellers on there. I have actually bought 3-4 buses on e-bay, even though I only invested money in 1 of them, and that one, I didn't actually buy it off of e-bay in the true sense of the word, but found it there and bought it thru a private sale after the auction. The others I passed on because of misrepresentation, 2 without even seeing them and 1 after a 750 trip to inspect. My personal thoughts are that too many buyers are guided primarily by price with all else being secondary to them. Understandably, the amount of money one has to spend is a big factor, but I think it is a mistake to make that the prime factor. I also think it is a mistake to do deposits on e-bay buses. You wouldn't do it locally, so why on e-bay with a sight unseen bus. Another problem for novice bus enthusiast is their usual relative unfamiliarity with buses. They really do need to get a "counselor" at the least. I bought my 1st bus "on the blind" in that sense. I lucked out and got a good bus at a good price but I used a knowledgeable buyer to secure it for me after paying him to do it for me. My current ride, the off-ebay one, I felt competant, with the help of 2 friends in the game, to do it on my own with the confidence that I was getting what I expected and at a damn good price, IMO. Bottom line, I don't think e-bay or any auction for that matter, is the place for an inexperienced bus buyer to jump into the game. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
it's realy a shame ..this guy is paying 13,000 for a 1300.00 bus...that has been screwed with..wrong wheels...no bays...unknown engine problems...will bet $$ he won't make it home ...& the wife will be turned sour on buses | ||
| gillig-dan Rating: N/A |
Whatever happened to 'RyanRTS' anyway??? I haven't seen him defend himself after the original post. My engine ran perfectly too when I got the bus. Took several short trips in it with no problem. Even made a 12-hour journey to get us halfway to Wisconsin. But, half-hour into day 2 and a half hour after my wife took over the wheel for the first time..... MELT-DOWN!! Even though I have decent mechanical skills, I did not know enough about diesel engines to thoroughly check it out (never had one before). But, if figured these things are meant to go half-a-million miles before they wear out.... Had I checked the exhaust manifold temperatures with an IR thermometer, I would have seen that three cylinders were running hot/lean. Figuring it was a double or nothing proposition to do a full rebuild, I quickly doubled my investment in the bus. The lesson I learned is, if I had to do it again, I would have the bus checked by a good mechanic. Driveline problems on an industrial vehicle like this cost MAJOR bucks to repair (properly). Gillig-Dan | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
Rating: N/A |
I have mixed feelings on whether to buy through ebay or not, i've purchased three different vehicles though ebay, maybe i'm lucky but each one was definately a good buy. In the last couple of years things on the internet, to me anyway have seemed to change, you have to really research and pay attention, what you have to remember is this, no one is holding a gun to your head to purchase anything, its your hard earned money, so spend it wisely, last thing i'm going to be worried about is a good feed back rating from Ebay, ask questions, ask questions, and again more questions, listen to the answers, what they say and what they don't say. You can get taken in real life as well as in auctions online, what you have to remember is these buses are 20 and 30 years old, yeah there are rust buckets, and numerous issues with each one, the transit or coach company has decided that its become more of a liability than a asset, so they remove it from service, guys like us should know that, what makes it a good buy or not to each individual is how much that you can do yourself, the more you can do the better the buy, and just the opposite, if you are limited, then you have to really be alert. Two Dogs is right there are plenty of snake oil salesmen out there ready to liberate you from your hard earned cash......don't be backward, if you have to hurt a feeling or two, so be it, one mans mansion is another mans money pit. When i first saw my bus and winning an auction my first instincts were run to the car and flee with great haste, but i knew what i was capable of doing, and with determination i could make this my dream bus, one thing for sure, when its done i will know every nut, bolt, wire in it! That is worthwhile to me.............To be a bus nut the faint of heart need not apply...........! Good luck and keep your eyes open and your hand on your wallet. | ||
| Tony & Kim Rian (Rianrts)
Rating: N/A |
I would like to respond to comments made. The advise that was given is greatly appreciated. Thank you. However, I admit that we may be taking a chance. We spoke with the seller extensivly! We have a written contract detailing that both the buyer and seller are protected. We still believe in the "good old boy system". We may be nieve, but at least we know that our words still has merrit. This "wife" is totally supportive in her husbands final decision to purchase this coach. We are not novice bus converters. We have been working on one for the past 3 years. Slow but sure. We chose to purchase this one because we can use it now. We can continue to have the other coach converted making it exactly the way we want it. Again, I appreciate all your advise. I am rather disappointed that most of the responses were negative. I had hoped that people would give us advise verses knocking us down. We will leave a post when we return from our adventure. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
not knocking you down partner...tryin' to wake ya' up | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
Give 'em books, they eat the cover! | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
I agree with 2dogs The responses might look like knocks, but they are not, more of a "helping hand" for you and other new buyers. I had gone after a car on the E place. Oh sure, mag wheels, new tires, excellent condition, blah, blah, blah. When I got there, the Mag wheels were steel rims, the paint was a sloppy redo, the interior was tore up and the radio was cutting in and out. Pieces of the dash were broken and falling off, the upolstery was soiled. When I questioned this, he said "Oh, My partner make the discription, why? Is'nt it right?" I walked from this one after being so badly misrepresented. I've been burnt on another sale and now I use the E place sparingly. Don't take anything to heart here, its all for your good and to help you into a good bus. cd | ||
| RonR. Rating: N/A |
My suggestion is to ask as many questions as you can possibly think of. Don't quit until you are satisfied with the answers. I sold a rig on the Eplace and answered almost 200 Emails. It was often a time consumming hassel because I sent out additional pictures with most of them. But I wanted the buyer to know as much as they could about the coach. Also, I encouraged them to come out if possible to look ahead of time. Just ask the right people, so that you can ask the right questions. Fraud is Fraud, and assumtion will make one bray. If someone says a engine has xxx,xxx,xxx number of miles on it "they think," be careful. I got burned on a bus like that. The man said that he rebuilt the motor, and I (mister trusting) believed him. My family and myself in 112 degree Yuma, AZ heat with a blown motor. Kids almost were hospitalized by heat stroke. Plus $1,000.00 tow bill. Be careful. When in doubt, DON'T! That's all for now folks. | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Rating: N/A |
You guys remind me of a neighbour of my mother-in-law when she still had her winter place in Florida. I'd drive down with her in the fall; first thing when we arrived, Mary (her neighbour) would come over to give her the news. It usually begain with something like "An 80 year old women in Crystal River was attacked and raped in the middle of the afteroon and then they killed and mutilated her dog" and went downhill from there. If you weren't depressed before you got there, well.. Next thing my mother-in-law and I would be on our way to Ace Hardware for another deadbolt. Why not be a little supportive; most of us thoroughly examined our purchases before we made a committment; but this might not necessarily be as bad as some seem to see it. FWIW DaveD | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
I don't see much difference between buying a bus on the bay and buying one off a private party-- you don't know what condition it is really in until you see and inspect it. Just don't hand over any money or deposit until it passes inspection. Did you know for auction purchases, there is an Escrow.com service available to hold the money until the buyer is satisfied? If the seller would not agree to this I would not bother looking. And yes, find a bus garage/mechanic to check the bus out before buying. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A |
If your are biding on a bus from that E-place that is to far to do a pre-purchase inspection you should get all your very DETAILED questions answered by email before you bid (in writing), ask twice if the answers are not clear. Only make a small deposit if it can be done through the ebay notice and by a credit card using PAYPAL. If the prepurchase inspection doesn't add up to the answers you were given you can still withdraw the small deposit as long as you can show proof of misrepresentation and it is not to long after payment was sent. There is a difference between a deposit and a down payment in a contract. If you show PAYPAL the evidence they will not let the vendor get the deposit and will freeze his account until all is settled. All those "bus condition answers" you were given are the things the vendor is liable for if you have to take him to court(as long as the stone has blood) You have to ask those detailed questions before you bid. If it is to much effort to give real answers for a $10,000 bus you should be woundering long before you reach the point to walk . I have watch the e-place auctions for the last year and am not surprised how often the same bus that can be won and re-won (their is always a direct coralation to the vendors vague answers to my questions). The MC 8 I finally purchased is a piece of need- much-work and the vendor did try and do me for extra cash and some parts are missing that I did not notice at the time of pick-up so even being careful and doing as much homework as practical I did not get what was advertised or expected. I will be reminded off all the shortcomings as I do all the rebuilding but still glad I took this plunge. It is not a surprise that all was not as claimed as that is what auctions are about (that is what comerce is about). | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
or...if ya' know the bus was driven without tires & drug the brake drums on the pavement... WAIT a minute....."OLD TWO DOGS"....hey...just because I have white hair....and wrinkles.....and the women don't chaise me anymore....and JUST realized................I am old anybodygotakleenex | ||
| Tony & Kim Rian (Rianrts)
Rating: N/A |
Daved Thank you for your words of encouragement. We have chosen not to purchase the deadbolt today. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
...and my two cents worth... I bought my bus on ebay, and was more than pleased. When I got to the seller's place to pick it up, it turned out to be 8 years older than advertised, but it is/was in excellent condition, had a newly rebuilt engine that he didn't even mention in the ad, it drove the 600 mile journey home just fine although quite noisy due to everything inside rattling.... but... I've now got 15,000 quite happy miles of vacation on the now mostly-finished bus, virtually every part for the conversion from the windows to the stereo to the kitchen to the genset to the "everything else" also came from ebay, and it's all been a totally positive experience. My bottom line is to do my homework, don't let emotion get the best of you, use paypal and go by their rules (which will, for the most part, help you if you have trouble with sellers) and have fun. I'd do it again the same way. Cheers | ||
| BrianMCI Rating: N/A |
While I do agree with the sentiment that Ebay is not the place for a novice to purchase a coach sight-unseen, Ebay IS a great place to look at a bunch of coaches and get an idea as to what is on the 'market'. I looked everywhere and must have viewed at LEAST a thousand buses over about a year and a half on Ebay and other places and in the end I did just what TwoDogs suggests, I went and looked at a coach on ebay and after looking it over I worked out a deal with the seller. Brian | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Rating: N/A |
Everyone has a good point. The advice is not totally negative or positive. It is reality in the world today. We did our homework and kept "buyer beware" in mind while looking for three years. The result was a very good bus far beyond what we expected for the money. Bus we passed on countless "great deals" in the process. We were positive in what we wanted, and staying alert to our best interests. We simply walked away from the negative, and the promises. Chuck Newman Oroville, CA | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
If you know what you're doing with google (hint: know what it means to have two words between " marks?) you can find some pretty interesting stuff beyond what's on EBay. You have to be able to wade through a lot of real drek links of course... A good example is that Crown Postal I'm looking at in Arizona, guy mainly sells old Euro 4x4x (Unimogs and such) but he's got this and one other bus listed as for sale. Another thing that happens alot is people not knowing what they're doing will use some really small or regional or free classified system (racingjunk.com is a good one!) that you normally wouldn't catch. Google searches some, not all. When buses are listed in these they often don't move quickly. Even the bigger classifieds like RVTrader.com and RVTraderonline.com (not the same thing!) won't move stuff as fast. You've got time to ponder 'em, ask questions or actually get out there and look and there's none of this "deposit" stuff at issue. There are make-specific yahoo message groups for RTSs, Gilligs, Crowns and the like - people put buses up of those types on those boards all the time. As they're adversizing to a bunch of their buddies, their reports of condition are often unusually detailed. And since this board has one, I need not mention the conversion-bus specific listing sites  . This one is probably the best of the lot. All taken together, there's more buses among these than on EBay, by a mile. I've personally basically lost interest in Ebay altogether as a source for a complete bus. | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Well, I might as well pipe up since everyone else has... ;) I bought my bus on eBay as well... Most of you know that it's a 60 foot rig, and many of you ripped on me about buying an unregisterable, undrivable, unbelievably huge monster of a bus... But I did it anyway. On May 8th, I get to go on a plane ride up to Minnesota to drive the beast back down to Louisiana. In the ad for my bus was a video of the thing running at idle. Very smooth, very clean, no smoke that could be seen. The guy is from my home state and we talked quite a bit about the bus, and after which I felt comfortable with the purchase. He's kept it in storage for me since the purchase, and will be making a 70 mile trip to pick me up at the airport himself. While eBay has its problems with idiots (both sellers, and buyers), as some posts have mentioned... it's a GREAT place to look at buses in general, and get a good idea of what price range each model sells at. I paid $6000 for mine with 6 months storage. I don't think I did too bad for what I'm getting.... The only thing I'm worried about is actually getting it down here. I originally wasn't worried about it at all, because I intended to move to Minneapolis... just a short hop from where the bus is now... But... Now I'm going to go to Iraq for at least two years... so I have no choice but to drive it down! If anyone is up around the St. Cloud area and southwest of St. Cloud... You're more than welcome to come help me rip seats out before the trip on the 9th of March! ;) -Mac | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
I'd love to help ya', but I ain't drivin' no bus to Iraq. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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A military assignment? Hope it is not as a driver for Haliburton or one of their many subs. | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
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I am really lucky, I found my last bus right here on this site. The old owner sent me streaming videos and mucho pics. The most important pic was the motor. I am very happy with my bus, to say the least. I found my first bus on ebay. Only problem is the cruising speed- 55. For 2500 I could get new gears, for a little more I got a better bus. I still love them both though! Bob | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
There's a funny thing I've noticed about this whole bus community online. Ummm...look, I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but the computer technical competence of the bus set is...not great. There's some techies around, yeah, but mostly not . What that means is that ads and pics are often substandard, pictures are sometimes flat-out non-existent and a lot of buses show up on really bad classifieds systems that in my opinion are mostly scams, because I don't see how anybody would normally find such sites. The single worse I've seen so far is: http://www.onestopmotors.com/ I'm not saying the sellers are scammers, I'm saying the owners of that site are out to do one thing only: separate sellers from their money. The search process is simply hideous. Others are almost as bad. More bus people than any other type (proportionally) get sucked into these, because they don't understand what a good search system looks like or how to figure out which sites get the google hits, or what online ads generally cost. I've EMailed people that paid $100 or more for ads on sites like that, it's disgusting. But once you understand people are being stung by these, bus people more than most, you can find some gems. I've found two good prospects on such trash classified systems. Anything I don't buy but asked questions on, I do intend to EMail them with pointers to where their buses might actually sell including Ian's site, Yahoo groups connected to their bus types, etc. Least I can do for having questioned 'em and I'm now two weeks or less from a buy of some sort . | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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Jim: I have to admit that I am one of those you refer to as "technically lacking". I use to chase the latest technology, a new puter every time Intel changed fare. Then one day I decided that this was as intended by Bill Gates and Intel and said to hell with it. I also use to buy nothing but new cars but then I got a little wiser and decided that this was not the wisest thing to do all the time. I also developed other interest which sort of displaced computers just like somewhere along the line buses replaced cars. I suppose you might say that some of us have better (???) things to do with our time or perhaps we just don't give a damn. | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
It all to simple call and ask questions lot and lots record what he says and tell him your are. Have a seller send you lots of pic's .If the seller is unwilling Pass. Arrange to pay the deposit when you show up to pick it up. Also there is some realy good buys out there on ebay Look for the buy it now set way to low from a seller that dont know what he has. I saw good 40' hwy coach with a low buy it now price but the bidders bid $10000 over the buy it now price that was droped after the first day. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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Brian: Maybe u meant otherwise, but paying a "deposit" when u show up to take delivery is somewhat inadequate. I have seen the outbidding of the buy it now also; makes me shake my head. I think you will find on closer inspection that these usually turn out to be a flaky buyer. One of the reasons that I favor the private deal off e-bay approach. I use e-bay for shopping, not buying, when it comes to items like a bus. I just can't imagine buying a bus without at least personal inspection regardless of how "co-operative" the seller is. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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James: I don't have an expensive rig either! Athlon 1800 and it's all basically scrap bits thrown together and on dial-up. Doesn't mean I don't know how to use google, how to post pictures online, etc. You're not bad, I've seen the ads on your 870 and I wish that sucker met my needs. But believe me, there's some out there... | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
"but paying a "deposit" when u show up to take delivery is somewhat inadequate" Why is that? I see lots of sales saying a deposit must be payed in 48 hrs or some more time is given. If your bidding you need to ready to pick it up take your deposit and the full payment and go get it. If its crap fly back home and tell the seller he lied. If I ask the cond. and is not what I was told I will not buy it. I have sold a few classic cars and motercycels on ebay . The one thing I dont like is a high bidder that has not asked or called for any info . They must have more money then brains or will make a big deal about the cond when they pay for it. I alway put in my adds that they should have a inspection or see it in person. If you dont and just bid I will not refund any deposit. Too stupid to ask questions or have a inspection done too bad. The way I see it you bid you buy so you better know what your bidding on. I allways post my phone number in my adds and say call ask questions . Guess what on the 30 bidders for my 56 chevy only 1 called I still think it sold for 1000's more then it was worth. But thats what I want all the money I can get just like any other seller. And like any buyer I want to pay as little as I can. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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Brian: Since u seem so bellacose and belligerant about this, why don't you consider this. I show up to PICK UP (that's what I said) your '56 Chevy. Can I take it with a mere "deposit" or do you want all of your money before I get it. Just why would I "take your deposit and the full payment"? Wouldn't full payment suffice? Further, why are u dealing in an electronic medium (the Internet) and referring me to use an antiquated medium like a telephone if I want to know something about your product. Do you have something against e-mail and putting things in writing? Do you answer your telephone inquiries or do you switch them to an answering machine or voice mail? If you do respond in a timely manner, you are clearly an exception to the rule that I have experienced with e-bay sellers. Maybe you go around handing over your money to strangers based solely on their word on sight un-seen items, but if that is the case, you are only a matter of time from being stung, big time, if u haven't been already. A couple hundred dollars is one matter, a few hundred is quite a different matter. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Well to me, if I *did* do biz on EBay, the "$1k deposit within 48 hours" translates purely as "be ready to get my butt out there in 48 hours or less and do the inspection and FULL payment" (or walk away if it's crapola). Ain't no way I'm doing a deposit, period, end of discussion and if I'm out there inside of 48hrs the seller has no cause for complaint. On the other hand, if I don't do business promptly, I think he's got just cause to go to the next highest bidder, so the 48hr rule is OK as long as it's not seen as a deposit, but a legit "speedup clause" in the contract. Also, James is correct in that representations in EMail can be referenced later in case of a dispute. I've dealt with political activists who turned out to be shady who wouldn't use EMail for anything sensitive, only phone, knowing that California is a state where both parties must agree to a phone recording and they didn't want to get their lies pinned down later. I doubt this is much different. With EBay it's critical as such representations are tracked and logged in case of a dispute later over PayPal payments, etc. I'll make exceptions sometimes. Had a phone conversation with James about his 870 in fact and I still to this day wish it met my needs, I'd go with that, I think it's a better deal than $25k worth of 4160. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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a 4160.. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Ooops. 4106 . |