| Author |
Message |
doctor al
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 12:07 pm: | |
Help me settle a dispute. when you go to a campground, does anyone plug just the converter in to charge the batt's and run the bus electrical off the inverter. Or do you remove the inverter from the loop and use campground electric for power needs? |
Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 12:32 pm: | |
I do it that way for small loads TV refrig lights all off inverter and the campground power chages the batts . I have not tryed that it with AC yet. When I get closer to finishing I will get a bigger inverter and it will shair power and use the batts to make up what the camp ground power dont supply.
Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 12:35 pm: | |
guess it depends on how the bus is set-up....
I have a converter...half of it is 110.... & that converts to 12 volt for your 12 volt needs ,& you also have 110 for the stuff that runs on 110....hope that answered the question... |
niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 1:59 pm: | |
Vantare said leave the inverter on all the time and let it decide how to manage itself - Gene Rochester (a higher authority) said turn the inverter off when on shore power - I'm with Brian, if I have adequate shore power and do not expect any huge load I turn of the inverters, if I expect to overload the shore power I turn them on - Niles |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 2:36 pm: | |
I have an SW inverter and it is on 365/24/7. If it's off I start looking for the malfunction. I mean, afterall, when plugged in it is acting on pass-thru for the 110v and primarily is only functioning as a charger.
Doctor Al refers to a converter and an inverter. Not sure if that is what he means, but if that is the case I would say to leave the converter on and why would you even need an inverter since you obviously already have 110 w/the plug-in to the power pole, which is the situation he bases his ? on. |
Jon W.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 3:21 pm: | |
Same here on the 365/24/7.
I have two inverter chargers and when they do not have input from line voltage (120) they are automatically providing 120 VAC to my outlets, refrigerator and TV. If the bus is running it is keeping the house batteries charged as long as my loads are not excessive.
When shore power or generator power is available the inverters are battery chargers and my 120 VAC requirements are handled by the shore or generator power.
It is an absolute no brainer of a system because I do nothing except start a generator or plug in shore power. If I want to make life more complicated than necessary I can manually control everything, but as set up I have autostart on the generator if I choose to sense either a low voltage condition on the batteries, or a disconnected shore power line. |
CoryDaneRTS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 3:36 pm: | |
The CONVERTER is from RV history, used to make 12vdc for lights and whatever needs 12vdc. the 120vac comes from the campground to the ac panel, when plugged in. The RV CONVERTER is not a good supply, commonly baking batteries in short time unless you put out good amounts of coin, of which you probably should have gotton an inverter/charger anyway.
My Xantrex/Trace SW inverter is made for 24/7. Some inverters are not. It is used on Solar arrays, Wind farms and remote home power supply etc., where power is supplied on a 24/7 basis.
The Xantrex/Trace has built-in programing that decides and acts on what the coach battery needs. (in most cases, programable. Depends on which one you buy). Xantrex made changes to programming, watch the model and who made it. Trace programming is much more flexible in most cases.
If you are plugged in, 120vac from the grid (land) is fed to the bus AC panel. If the batteries need charging, the Inverter (fed from grid) keeps the battery charged.
If you try to start a heavy load surpassing the amount the grid can supply, the inverter programming (Not available in all flavors) will supply the amounted needed to do what you want. After the load demand has subsided, the inverter will again charge the battery, leaving supply to the grid. Once the battery is at full charge, the Inverter will monitor until it is needed again.
Without the grid, Your AC will be supplied by the inverter and/or your gen set. Again, the gen set will act like the grid and the inverter charges the battery when needed when the gen set is on.
Obviously, the Solar array will take longer to charge (if available) without the grid or gen set, but is still better than nothing when on battery.
The manufacturer will tell you to run 24/7 and allow the inverter programming to maintain the battery and supply to the rv. That way, you don't have to monitor anything. Everything you would monitor has been programmed by you telling the inverter when/how to operate the charger. Also allows filtered power (if available) through the inverter.
Obviously, the answer you seek, depends on WHICH inverter you are talking about. Converters are pretty much the same and in the RV world, aren't good for long term 24/7 operation due to the poor controls/monitor systems in them. Them batteries are expensive when the Conv cooks em.
So, which inverter you talking about??
cd |
doctor al
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 4:16 pm: | |
Ok, let me clarify. The way I have it set up is as follows. shore power cord is hard wired into 30amp entrance. Then, I have a seperate 30 amp rv recepticle hooked to the 3000 watt coleman inverter. beside that is another 30 amp rv recepticle wired to the generator. Old fashioned cheap way to change over. simply unplug shore power cord and plug it into either of the other recepticles depending on the useage. now the discussion became a little heated when we started talking about the converter. My answer was plug the converter into a normal 15 amp recepticle mounted in the coach basement. then, anytime you are hooked to shore or generator, the converter will charge the batts. then I would simply unplug the converter anytime the inverter was to be put in use. Seemed easy enough to me. However, the other half doesn't agree with me. thinks we should always use inverter for power even when parked in camp ground. seems silly to me to use the inverter when you have a power pole sitting next to you.
Also, I already have ups back-up's for the major appliances. |
CoryDaneRTS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 5:48 pm: | |
(" shore power cord is hard wired into 30amp entrance. Then, I have a seperate 30 amp rv recepticle hooked to the 3000 watt coleman inverter. beside that is another 30 amp rv recepticle wired to the generator ")
This is a common way of switching in the older RV's. Its cheap and works.
<<<<<>>>>>
(" plug the converter into a normal 15 amp recepticle mounted in the coach basement. then, anytime you are hooked to shore or generator, the converter will charge the batts. ")
This is not uncommon for storage. If your converter is a cheapie, it is bad for the battery, even in a campground. If you do this, it is suggested to keep a load on it to help prevent boiling the batteries.
<<<<<>>>>>
(" then I would simply unplug the converter anytime the inverter was to be put in use ")
This will work. It seems you have little choice since it sounds like your inverter does not charge the battery.
<<<<<>>>>>
(" other half doesn't agree with me. thinks we should always use inverter for power even when parked in camp ground ")
Uhm, Depending on your equipment, your B/H could be wrong or right.
Using your set-up (as I understand it) makes me beleive that you will not be charging the battery on inverter. ASSuming the lights are 12v, you will have a drain and eventually will have to plug in the converter.
IF CONVerter can charge the battery without boiling them out to a short life, there is no problem. If the CONVerter is a cheapie (normal supply from RV manufacturers), Long term plug in is BAD BAD BAD. Leave lights on, load it up to keep from boiling the battery.
In the above case, if the INVERTER does not have a charger you have a couple of options....
1.
You can plug in the CONVERTER and leave all the lights on for a load and hope the converter does not boil out the battery from overcharge.
2.
It would be far better to put a timer on the converter and limit charge times until you could afford a smart charger or an inverter with proper charging programming.
Use of the inverter at a park would save you from some spikes or voltage surge/drops that occur at older parks.
Having the INVERTER run from the BATTERY would give sufficient LOAD to prevent the battery from coming to full charge and boiling from a full charge converter.
It pretty much does not matter what you decide as far as the inverter is concerned, it is made to run if it is big enough to handle the load.
It does matter if the converter cannot charge the battery without burning it out.
Your choice, like Burger King, Have it your way
cd |
doctor al
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 6:54 pm: | |
Thank you CD. Kinda think I might be better off using the 3 position batt charger I have in the garage. maybe yank the handle and wheels off and mount it downstairs. most of my lights are 110. only 4 are 12v. the converter came out of our old motorhome. and yes, it would sometimes boil off the single house battery. but, the bus has 8 6v golf cart batt's for the house side. do you think the converter will still boil the water? assuming of course I'm not sitting plugged in for 6 months or so. |
walkaboutamerica
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 11:14 pm: | |
I bought a Xantrex +20 4 stage charger to replace my dead 18 yr old converter(I don't like inverters) and mounted it in the coach. It's been 3 months now and water still up, batteries stay at 12.9 and everything 12v in the house works with no problems. Keeps both bateries up(has a lead for a 3rd battery that I hooked to the old 12v out from the converter) and has a switch to turn it into a power supply if needed and a batt equalizer setting too. One of the slickest upgrades I ever made. |
CoryDaneRTS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 11:42 pm: | |
first you would have to figure out the charge rate from the converter.
For kicks lets figure it is 10 amps.
you have 8 batteries, so that current would be divided by that number for a rough idea of what the minimum charge would be.
The problem is, the charge rates change as the battery are charged or discharged. If one cell is in better charge state, it passes the charge to the next cell. If the cells are in a full charge state, you need a charger that can sense this or the additional charge starts to damage the cells unless there is load to counter the charge. It gets complicated, you see the picture forming before your eyes? lol
Basically, the old converters are not great for long term battery life.
Unless you have a lot of meters and know how to monitor the state of charge on your battery, it may be cheaper for you to get a better charger or an inverter that has the charger built in, at least in the long run.
I am sure if anyone differs in my logic, they will chime in.
I hope you got the answer you needed.
cd |
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