| Author |
Message |
Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 4:35 am: | |
Check this out:
http://www.usdieselengines.com/no_idle_truck_generators.htm
It's a "complete power, heating and cooling" bolt-on for the trucking biz. Just under $7k, you get a 4kw 2-cylinder Perkins diesel genset in a very quiet enclosure plus an included 20,000btu AC unit and 12,000btu heater all in one shot. Built in DC battery charger and of course 110ac. Meant to bolt to a frame rail but could be mounted other ways I guess.
It's...kinda neat, in that a lot of people don't need all that much power. And it's designed for serious fuel efficiency not common in diesel gensets. Betcha anything it'll run WAY cheaper than an 8kw - 12kw diesel genset.
I'm surprised by that AC cooling spec of course. That's...borderline impossible? If NOT, then...hell, this sucker could be an "all in one" solution for a lot of the 30-35ft rigs?
Looking at the detailed pics of both the engine module and the separate AC/heat unit, it looks like they're using the genset's water-cooling plumbing as part of the heat exchanger system!?
THAT in turn might make those BTU figures possible. And just maybe, IN ADDITION to the power generation!?
ummmm...I'm gonna make a phone call on this. Because if that's correct...then...given everything you're getting at once and the very low fuel use, this thing is WAY cool. Pricey, but a boondocker's dream.
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jimmci9 #2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 6:02 am: | |
these have been around for several years....just remember, this was used for a truck cab and sleeper combination.... we took several off of trucks when i worked for united engines, in shreveport....don't remember the reason, but the customer was not happy with the performance.... |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 8:04 am: | |
For 7 grand (393 lb ?) you can get one helluva genset and
two or three roof airs, complete with heat and exhaust... and
run your electric hot water heater along with it...
I think the "all in one" refers to your cash in the manufacturer's
pocket. |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 1:14 pm: | |
If this one is like the one I passed on (I think he still has it) with a 3 cyl. Kubota (14hp version), yes it has a heat exchanger radiator/condensor, a very small alternator (35-40 amp), and drives an A/C compressor. I think the most popular were the Pony Paks made near Dallas. Jim is correct on the intended usage |
Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 1:16 pm: | |
Wait...IF it works as advertized, what gets me is that a quiet, water-cooled diesel genset is always going to be expensive, unless it's a cheapo Chinese motor of questionable metallurgy.
And you hardly ever see a diesel watercooler as small as 4kw...in fact I've yet to see a listing for same anywhere else.
For a lot of us, esp. with just a 35ft rig and some care spent on low-drain power items like AC and fridge, 4kw is all you need. And the advantage is greater fuel economy than the more common 7kw - 12kw diesel sets.
The absolute best fuel economy I've seen from a 4kw setup is a pair of the 2000kw Hondas "chained together". You use both when you need to, including starting up something big, then shut one down. Gallons-per-hour figures at that point are just phenomenal, total cost for both is around $2200.
But I'd be willing to bet this one Perkins engine will long outlast both Hondas.
Now it would still be one hell of an expensive genset except that the other accessories help offset the cost. At that point you're right about at the cost of a 7kw or better convensional diesel watercooled genset and under the cost for the 8kw+ some people run (again, assuming watercooled and non-Chinese motor).
And like I said, 4kw is enough for prolly at least half the folks here, myself included. |
Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 1:17 pm: | |
Oh, and this is based on a 2-cylinder Perkins engine, not a three-banger Kubota. |
Johnny
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 4:12 pm: | |
I haven't heard much bad about Kubota or Perkins. China Diesel, OTOH...YUCK!
This sounds like a pretty good setup...any idea where I might dig up a used one?
ACtually, the Perkins sounds like a semi-trailer reefer engine. |
Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 5:49 pm: | |
"ACtually, the Perkins sounds like a semi-trailer reefer engine."
That's not at all unlikely. The company's main market right now is to truckers, and they sell a lot of rebuilt complete diesel main engines. That's how I found the page, I was trying to figure out what the costs would be on a rebuilt Cummins 504/555.
Where to find used, no idea.
This thing only makes sense if the AC unit in question will really deliver 20,000btu, something that seems borderline impossible |
Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 5:53 pm: | |
Another thing: just as Walmart and Target have driven down the "market value" of stuff like housewares, electronics, toys and whatnot with seriously el cheapo Chinese stuff, the same thing is happening to gensets. We're seeing a lot of new conversions ship with "low, low prices!" 12kw diesel gensets. Look again, and they've got a Chinese motor that is just NOT gonna hold up.
Kubota, Perkins, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki/"Robin", Onan/Cummins, all good stuff.
Which costs. And the costs of the Chinese stuff is skewing the market. |
Johnny
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 7:09 pm: | |
What about Yanmar? Any good?
Doesn't John Deere smake genset diesels? |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 8:02 pm: | |
Speaking of Chinese industial growth. Move over neighbours; as of last month the U.S.A. moved to second place in the world for Gross National Consumption of goods, China moved to first place. Of course that figute does not speak of how much of that consumption was in industrial goods that were then exported to the rest of the world and how much was consumed domesticaly.
The sleeping giant has awaken it seems (or is that the meek shall inheiret the earth. Hope they will turn out to be a good omega superpower! |
Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 8:07 pm: | |
Is Yanmar Chinese or Japanese?
All I've heard so far is reports of Chinese ("Red Chinese") genset motors and diesels in general being of very questionable quality inside.
For that matter, half the kids in America seem to have bought little scooters and mini-motorcycles with "weedeater engines" in 'em, almost all Chinese for about $400 a pop average...and the quality is possibly the worst of any gas-powered engine since maybe pre-WW1.
The mainland Chinese just...well their business ethics haven't caught up to their rate of free-market reform. If it works when it went out the door, that's the only thing the party boss who owns the factory via connections cares about.
This isn't universal of course but it IS a trend. Study their banking system and you'll come away shocked, a number of economists think the next big world recession will happen when the entire Chinese financial structure comes as unglued as Japan's did some years back, and for similar reasons: deeply embedded corruption being a controlling influence in loan processing. (But in Japan the rot didn't include the manufacturing sector, or at least not very much.)
Let's not even start with software/music piracy in China, etc.
I personally will not own anything my life depends on that came from mainland China. That includes motorcycle helmets and tires, and in my opinion it includes RV gensets - break down in the extreme heat or cold and your genset could keep you alive.
------------
And yes, John Deere makes a damned fine motor. |
R. Steve Nichol (N4rsn)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 9:03 pm: | |
What about Yanmar? Any good?
Yanmar is japanese, and John Deere is Yanmar.
Vary good!! and long lasting, and easy to get parts
Steve |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 9:44 pm: | |
I will never buy an "all in one" product again. if one part of it goes out the whole thinghas to be sent back. and then your stuck without the rest of the stuff you need. kind of like a shop smith, cool concept for apartment dwellers or some one without any space but areal pain in the ass. if you throw a peice thats nearly finished out of the lathe you gotta go back and set up the table saw to cut another blank. stand alone products are usualy built much better. |
Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 9:50 pm: | |
There's some merit to that. A lot of merit.
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Does anybody know of a diesel water-cooled genset of only about 4kw? Esp. one that ain't very loud (good shroud system)? |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 11:47 pm: | |
Just as likely that the rest world quality standards will shift towards China's industrail standards. Think of it as a capitalist dream come true, why sell something that last 10 years for $100 when you can sell 10 cheaper versions for $20 each once a year.
Much of those China cloned goods are made on licence to the exact specifications & low quality dictated by the licening corparation that was the original manufacture.
If the deal shopers buys the $1000 China junk acme clone (which was licenced by Acme INC.of USA for production in China) and feels real riped off because it only lasted 1 year; when it is replacement time he will be more than happy to pay $6,000 to replace it with the fancey new improved genuine Acme INC. model that will last 2 years (the old genuine Acme INC model cost $2000 and lasted 3 years). I think some call this market customer training, others call it swindle, yet others call it competiveness.
The end result is the same, self brainwash loyal customers and they never buy stray nock-off clones again (especial to Acme's small competiors that were on the verge of marketing their 4 year version for $1500. Thing is it will be the licenced China factory that builds the parts for new improved $6000 2 year model for Acme INC. as merchants know no borders.
The wonders you can cook up when pour salve labor mixed with competive capitalism over greedy consumers. The best hope is that the China factory slaves learn to throw the chains off before robotics are set up and make the blue worker collar obsoluite everywhere. That is why the only way out becomes equality and human rights for all or for non.
Remember the early 1970's when "jap crap" hit the market, nothing new under this sun! |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 5:43 am: | |
"The best hope is that the China factory slaves learn to throw the chains off"
In the past decade the Chinese workers have seen their std. of living go up almost 300%.
Not sure these very HAPPY hard working folks are ready to ditch their Authoritan Gov just yet.
China tho IS loosing more jobs than the US to the enivitable lower cost labor.
So there getting better at adding Quality to products.
They will join the rest of the world when they have laws concerning the protection of intelictual property, now they just "Liberate" what ever they want .
That will end when they begin to innovate and have somthing to protect.
FAST FRED |
Phil Dumpster
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 4:01 am: | |
Not to mention that not all Chinese made products are created equal. Some of their best efforts are also some of the best in the world in what they are.
Take, for example, the generator sets many bus converters here like to bash with impunity. If you buy a cheap generator set from an importer whose main selling point is low price, then you are going to get what you pay for. Purchase a generator from an importer whose selling point is a dependable generator, and you're going to get a solid, quality product. It will consist of World War II era technology, and if it is a diesel engine is isn't going to be quiet, but it will be dependable and work very well. It won't run like a Honda, but it will probably outlast it.
Let's dismiss the fact for this discussion that these generator sets were never designed for use in an RV, let alone anywhere that is close to where humans live. Many villages in rural China that have progressed beyond the stone age have generators like these to provide electric power, and they usually locate the generator on the other side of a hill or some other place where the noise won't drive the inhabitants of the village nuts.
I've seen Chinese machine tools which were built very well, and as long as you were happy without CNC they work great. They didn't come from Harbor Freight, or have a Harbor Freight price.
It all depends on the company that contracts with the factory to produce an item. Most companies who import from China are doing so because the labor is dirt cheap and the price is hard to resist. The pressure is on to acquire the product at the lowest possible price, and sell below the competition. Quality takes a back seat in this equation.
One importer of Chinese generator heads and diesel engines (as well as Indian Listeroids) that sells better quality machines is utterpower.com. |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 12:06 am: | |
My best hopes are they all become wealthy and free enough to become bigger consumers of our exports and take a bigger role in the world. The more the merrier in a free world. I do buy many china goods and you can get what you pay for if you do your product research . |