| Author |
Message |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 4:23 pm: | |
just got here a few minutes ago. had only minor problems, (peskey and not too expencive).
line for power steering rubbed against alternator and lost power steering. heat was an issue but I stayed warm enough. I went from 8.33 mpg down to 6.5 mpg after putting on those taller tires, not good. I drove the same as before 70 mph at 2000 rpm. so I droped to 60 mph to see if that helps, if not I'll go back to shorter tires. Oh yea no lights this morning another area to figure out. |
Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 5:16 pm: | |
Taller tires should not lead to less MPGs. Don't forget that your speedo is off now. If you didn't recalibrate it, you were going a lot faster than 70. You'd have to do the math with a tire calc.
Glad you made it w/o a lot of expen$e this time.
BB |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 5:26 pm: | |
same answer..tires will make better mileage...lots of factors involved...into a headwind...gaining elevation...like brian said..you went farther & faster than indicated speed & miles. |
Frank allen
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 6:39 pm: | |
lights went out on my new dodge pick up, with 600 miles on it , its not worn out, this can happen anytime, some dont want to post for all the colorful remarks
Frank allen
4106 |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 8:15 pm: | |
fuse block was bad |
Sojourner (Jjimage)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 9:08 pm: | |
Fuse Block 8-Gang at auto Zone under $10 in MURFREESBORO, zip code is either 37127 to 133.
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=C003&UserAction=performAccTextSearch&Para meters=Fuse+Block+8-Gang%2460232%24MTR
I don’t know electrical system on your GMC 4905 but there is many bus conversion repair shop around Nashville…..look in yellow page under bus or coach repair or so. I forgot all the names but been there.
Caption Ron...Not related to your problem but what method you use to get on internet while traveling?
Good you made it so far.
Wish you well.
Thanks
Sojourn for Christ, Jerry |
Sojourner (Jjimage)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 9:53 pm: | |
Caption Ron,
Just found shop where I had oil change 5 years ago and still there.
South part of Nashville off of US 24, west about 3.5 miles on 255 (Harding PL), cross hwy 41A until Trousdale Dr. (just before railroad tracks) & turn right go about 1.5 mi. north to 3653 Trousdale Dr.
Was United Coach Service, Inc.
Now it TRIPLE T COACH INC (615) 331-2006
3653 TROUSDALE DR
NASHVILLE, TN 37204
Call them your problem, may refer to some where else.
When I was there, very reasonable and helpful.
Again wish you well.
FWIW
Sojourn for Christ, Jerry |
JackW
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 10:21 pm: | |
Hi Ron, I'm in NW Atlanta (Smyrna) if you would like to stop. |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:16 pm: | |
Jack,I'll be coming through on thursday give me a number to get ahold of you. mine is 239-292-1750
Jerry thanks, I use my cell phone when I can and have to, but right now I'm at my ex wife and daughters house. |
dragon
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:24 pm: | |
To add whatever Ron may use for internet, while on road we use Verizon.
For 60 a month we get 800 min and nights and weekends, free no roaming, no long distance charges for US and large coverage area tho the high speed conn areas are fairly limited (happens to fit well with our hang out areas) the low speed conn works where ever you have a signal for phone.
The mobil web package costs 40 for the software and cable and is very stable and easy to use. Right now I'm connected at 230.4 kbps which is almost 8 times faster than my old 56k was. If you use it during peak hours it uses minuits off your plan so I do most comp stuff nights and weekends.
I have had this since July and some months I do around 5000 min on my free time and no complaints from Verizon.
We got the phone while we were in Joplin and left soon after and never changed number etc just set it up for paperless billing and pay online. Unbeliveably great system, I can even play hard core online games with it better than I could on landline before we went back fulltime.
If you use it much the large battery makes a big diff it gives me about 5 1/2 hrs online. |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:33 pm: | |
I have verizon also. but it is very limited in my opinion. certain areas where you have phone sevice you will not have computer service. Wisconsin was bad. only worked in Milwaukee, Appleton and Green Bay. it is a totaly different system when using internet. they are working on using another providers towers to improve the system Ron |
JackW
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 12:20 am: | |
6128752009 (verizon) |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 12:26 am: | |
To repeat;
This is not rocket science--With the taller tires you're going faster than you think and farther than you think.
Measure the odometer against mile markers and use the same percentage difference on your indicated speed. |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 2:14 am: | |
I used the mile marker thing and it seemed dead nuts as stated in above post. I hope there's a logical reason for loss of mpg |
CoryDaneRTS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 4:49 am: | |
I was reading a post on "Another Board" (MY GOSH) and this fella had a good idea to check your speedo.
He used his Bicycle computer that uses a magnetic sensor and attached to the wheel, this is similar to how they are attached to a bicycle.
Set the sensor to pick up the magnet, ran the wire to the dash.
Programmed the bicycle computer to the tire circumferance (tire size in inches).
When he rolled down the road, the speed was within a reasonable margin of being correct.
He is considering using this as a check versus the main speedo and he is using the timer, odometer functions for maintenance and such.
Would this be helpful to you guys???
LOL, things people do
cd |
J
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 7:39 am: | |
Seems like a GPS would be easier and more accurate. |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 8:33 am: | |
Ron: Unless your odometer is driven by one of the wheels with the bigger tires, it will not change. If it is driven by a gear in the transmission nothing after the transmission will affect the reading. It is counting number of driveshaft rotations.
A mechanical driven speedo/odometer is calibrated by changing the gear in the transmission. An electronic unit (driven off a front wheel) may be possible to recalibrate with switches on the back of the head. |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 8:52 am: | |
It drives off of the tranny, so I believe it's still accurate |
Jackhammer343
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 9:43 am: | |
Yeah.....GPS is the ticket |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 9:52 am: | |
I just got a phone call from the guy I got my alternater from in milwaukee. and he came up with a very good reason my fuel mileage went down. my alternater works and takes a lot of horse power.
I never had an alternater on the bus when I was checking it before. Thanks Randy have a safe and fun trip to Daytona |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 10:29 am: | |
Ron: I think you misunderstood my previous post. Your transmission driven speedo/odometer is correct for the rear axle ratio and tire size it was calibrated for. If you want it to read correct with larger tires, you have to change the speedo gear in the transmission.
If you change the tire size you travel a different number of miles with the same number of drive line revolutions. With larger tires, they will go more miles per hour with the same engine speed and travel a greater distance. The same thing applies if you change the rear axle ratio.
If you are still not clear on this I will work out a hypothetical set of numbers that would show it more clearly. |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 10:32 am: | |
is there a inexpensive gps unit out there? |
Jim Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 11:03 am: | |
Ron, did you change the rear tires too? If so, you now are turning fewer turns per mile, therefore it looks like you are going fewer miles. I'd drive a measured 10 miles & check the odometer. If it's pretty close, then you were indicating more miles before than you were actually travelling. You should be able to get close to 9MPG at 65 with your stick shift coach. A strong headwind or hilly country will reduce that a lot.
Jim-Bob |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 2:47 pm: | |
Rears are what I changed. I was hoping that I would go up to 9 mpg. once I get past atlanta I will be able to check fuel mileage better. after Im out og the tennessee mountains |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 2:48 pm: | |
snip "Ron: Unless your odometer is driven by one of the wheels with the bigger tires, it will not change. If it is driven by a gear in the transmission nothing after the transmission will affect the reading. It is counting number of driveshaft rotations."
Stan, are you real certain about this statement? It would seem to me that tire size would affect the reading.
Richard |
niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 3:12 pm: | |
Did you consider that Ron's speedo may have been incorrect prior to replacing the tires and NOW is correct ???????????? - Niles |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 4:46 pm: | |
Richard: Think about jacking the drive axle off the ground and running the bus in gear. The speedo will read MPH and the odometer will show miles travelled. They are both determined by the speedo gear on the tranmission output shaft and nothing to do with the tires. Changing tire size changes the real numbers but not the numbers on the dial in the dash.
If you have a wheel driven speedo sender that is a different story. |
Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 5:29 pm: | |
I don't think you're correct, Stan. Changing the circumference of the tire will cause the output shaft to incorrectly measure MPH and odometer... since it's a mere ratio of revs on shaft vs. revs on tire. Changing revs on tire now means revs on shaft ratio is wrong. I can't see it any other way.
It's analagous to rear-end ratio, tranny gears, and tire revs (height) being inexorably intwined with speed, mileage, hill-climbing, etc. Speedo is no different, since it's a ratio. Imagine if you could shoehorn little 15" rims on the bus and drive it. That speedo's gonna read WAY high! So will the revs, and you'll go nowhere fast... and be able to pull stumps with it. And the Spicer reverse will finally be good for something *LOL*.
BB |
JackW
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 5:44 pm: | |
Hey Ron, if you are stopping in Atlanta, need a hand, or tools, or a place to stay, good food, etc. let me know.
wentworth2754@charter.net
612 875 2009
770 573 3552 |
Ed (Ednj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 8:24 pm: | |
Wait a minute, he said taller tires.
Wouldn't that lower the RPMs, And be greater distance travel?
Anyhow here in the North Country they have a winter blend fuel. Not comparing but I drove 150 miles on a full tank of diesel in my pickup last weekend. (Pretty bad I usually get at least 225 per tank 18 gal) I stopped at a flying j 3 states away, and filled up.
Drove 110 miles on 3/8 of a tank. Still driving on the flying J fuel, it’s almost worth driving to another state to get better mileage LOL.
I bought fuel in Maine once and could not even make it out of the state.
Filled up in Mass, and drove for 3 days.
Might be a fuel thing? |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 8:24 pm: | |
Brian: Go back and read my post about jacking the rear wheels off the ground. You are not going anywhere but the dash gauge reads the same, even with no wheels on the hubs. |
Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 9:43 pm: | |
Ron, DeLorme makes a very inexpensive GPS system i guess you already have a laptop on the bus, you just buy the software, the GPS unit is held on with a suction cup. And your in business. I purchased mine at Circuit City, if i remember right the price was $129. The GPS receiver plugs into a USB port, the program is called Earthmate! Pat |
Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 10:46 pm: | |
Stan, of course if the tires are spinning, jacked up or not, the speedo "thinks" it's putting miles down. If you put it in gear and rev the engine until it reads a set amount, like 60mph, it will correspond to a certain rpm at the wheels/ tires.
Now, this must be what's tripping you up... With a tire change, the rpm of the wheel is the same as before (and always will be unless someone changes the speedo gear), BUT at the same rpm, the taller tire has to travel less distance. Consequently, the engine turns less rpms for a given distance than before. And the speedo is off the inverse amount (higher tire = lower speed indicated).
Take a look at the circumference equation: this is the way to translate an angular velocity (round and round) into a linear one (miles). A bigger circle will spin less to go the same linear distance as a smaller one. This is how speedos/odos work, and there's no other way around it.
You can try this calculator or any number of other ones by typing in "tire speedometer calculator" in Google. They're always related to tire height/ circumference... and your speedo will invariably be affected by a tire height change.
Hope I've explained it better now,
BB |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 7:57 am: | |
Brian: I am well aware of what happens when you change tire size. If you go back and read it again, it says that if you change the tire size you will change the real numbers but not the numbers on the dial in the dash.
Now note very carefully. If you want to change the numbers on the dash dial you have to change the engine speed. At any fixed engine speed the bus will move through the air faster with bigger tires but the speedo will read the same as on smaller tires. |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 8:06 am: | |
indicated speed =same...actual speed----changed
never thought I would kinda agree with stan on anything |
Jim Wilke
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 9:42 am: | |
Stan, you must be a pilot. You make reference to speed through the air, not on the road.
What Ron is talking about isn't whether the speedo will indicate the same at a given RPM. Most buses don't have tachometers anyway, the 4905 being one of them.
He's talking about the speedometer being correct as he drives, and his miles per gallon. Whether the speedo is driven from the transmission or a front wheel, if he increases the tire diameter, then the speedometer will be inaccurate even though it may INDICATE the same speed at a given RPMs. It will be recording fewer miles than are actually driven, and therefore, Ron's miles per gallon calculations will be wrong. He will actually be getting more MPG than he thinks.
Since Ron was not sure if the odometer was correct to start with, we advised him to check it against mileposts (poor man's GPS).
It is also likely that he won't get really good mileage information 'till he can run at a set speed on flat ground and very little wind with regular (non winter) diesel fuel. All of those factors greatly impact mileage.
Jim-Bob |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:02 am: | |
Note that Ron said he was running at 2000 RPM. From that I assume he had a Tachometer and would even gues that he had his foot on the mat and he was against the governor or using all the power he had.
I could also point out that it is physically impossible to change tire size and run at the same RPM and be at the same speed as Ron says. |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:42 am: | |
spedometor cable off the trans. ???wow..must be 35 feet long....can't imagine sensor not being on the left front wheel.... |
Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:56 am: | |
TD: many GMCs use a cable off the tranny that runs to a back bulkhead electric sending unit. |
Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:16 am: | |
Stan, I was originally objecting to your statement: "The speedo will read MPH and the odometer will show miles travelled. They are both determined by the speedo gear on the tranmission output shaft and nothing to do with the tires."
From your latest posts, it seems like we're now saying the same thing... that is has an awful LOT to about tires.
So, let's see if we can all agree on the following things, by breaking it down to its simplest terms, and away from "moving through the air" and "real numbers":
Assuming the same actual speed in all cases:
Taller tires = less indicated speed & less indicated miles traveled
Smaller tires = greater indicated speed & greater indicated miles traveled
In either case, the tach RPMs no longer corresponds with MPH because the tire sizes were changed.
Agreed?
BB |
Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 1:19 pm: | |
The tach will correnspond same mph as before with the trans driven sending unit. The road speed will not match the spedo with differnt size tires.
If you tach shows 1900 at 70 it will be the same
with two inch taller tires just you will be going 74 + or - faster road speed.
Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 1:52 pm: | |
Ron: Somehow you got left out of the discussion but from looking through your posts you say that you had a pace car confirm the accuracy of your speedometer and the odometer reads correct and the engine speed is the same.
Putting all this together means that the tires you put on have to be the same size (number of revs/mile) as the ones you took off. If you put on bigger tires, something has to change. |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 4:13 pm: | |
only 3 m.p.h. change |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 7:52 pm: | |
If you jack the wheel the tire size has no effect.
If your increase the tire diameter (taller) anywhere in the drive train and the speedometer is hooked anywhere into the drive train the odometer miles will decrease and the speed will decrease even if the bus is actually moving at the same speed (GPS).
If the speedo/odometer is hooked to the front wheel and you increase the rear tire size the speedo/odometer will not change but the fuel mileage will probably increase.
If the speedo/odometer is hooked to the front wheel and you increase the front tire size odometer miles will decrease and the indicated speed will decrease even if the bus is actually moving at the same speed (GPS).
This is not difficult; a larger diameter tire travels farther with each revolution. The speedo/odometer measures revolutions. |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 8:29 pm: | |
yes gus...but only to your last paragraph |
Derek (Derek_l)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 11:12 am: | |
Gus has it, for any given engine speed, the tires will also be doing a certain speed.
Increasing tire height will decrease the amount of engine RPM needed to maintain the same speed, hence, a transmission driven tach that is not recalibrated will read less miles travelled at lower speed, though you're doing the same.
Let's say, for example.
**CONSTANTS**
Engine RPM: 2000
Transmission Ratio: 1:1
Rear End Ratio: 3.73:1
**VARIABLES**
Tyre: 11R22.5
Overall Diameter: 41.7"
RevPerMile: 497
Distance Travelled (1 Minute): 1.09 Miles
Distance Travelled (1 Hour): 65.52 Miles
Speed: 65.52 MPH
Tyre: 12R22.5
Overall Diameter: 43.0"
RevPerMile: 481
Distance Travelled (1 Minute): 1.11 Miles
Distance Travelled (1 Hour): 66.88 Miles
Speed: 66.88 MPH
Tyre: 11R24.5
Overall Diameter: 43.9"
RevPerMile: 474
Distance Travelled (1 Minute): 1.13 Miles
Distance Travelled (1 Hour): 67.87 Miles
Speed: 67.87 MPH
***END***
Assuming your speedometer is transmission driven and calibrated for 11R22.5 tyres, your speed will read 65.52MPH at 2000 RPM in 4th gear in your Spicer, all the time, every time.
However, when you change to taller tyres, you will be going 2.3MPH faster at 2000 RPM in the same bus.
As Gus said, if you wanted to go 65MPH your engine speed would decrease accordingly.
You will get the same results if you increase the tyre overall diameter on a front wheel driven speedometer, without recalibrating the speedometer. |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 4:02 pm: | |
2dog,
Specifically what do you disagree with in the other paragraphs.
I did fail to specify "indicated" speed in a couple of places but thought that was obvious. |