| Author | Message | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.68.130) Rating: N/A |
Awhile ago Fast Fred mentioned an idea for connecting long manual choke type cables to the existing air levelling valves so the driver could manually control them. It seems one of my front air bags or somewhere in the system is leaking so I am wondering if now is the time to work on an air levelling system. I think the obstacle Fast Fred had was finding cables long enough to go from the cockpit back to the valves at the rear axle. This occurred to me today: Could one move the valves right into the cockpit and run dot air line back to the air bags? That way instead of ride height being controlled by axle height, the driver could manipulate it by working the valves directly at the cockpit. Any thoughts? | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.68.130) Rating: N/A |
I just found this: http://www.push-pull.com They appear to have every kind cable imaginable in every lenght. Am sending for the catalog now. Scott | ||
| TonyW (152.163.206.178) Rating: N/A |
Hi Scott, I really sweated thru your trip w/ the fuel problems ect..We had a big party up here when you got'er solved! From my understanding what FF (and myself too!) wants from his air-suspension is an "auto-level over ride" for parking(camping),sneaking over steep railway grades and getting off the beaten path to that "perfect spot". The problem arises when the "over ride cable" inflates the air bag past maximum of the auto level control arms and warps'em out of ajustment for auto-mode. If a guy wanted to disable the autoleveling feature then valve and control placement would be at the builders disgression. Our RTS has about 10 1/2 inches of clearance and its not enough to suit me. I was thinking of useing cotter pins as "quik-connects" to disconnect the control arms when useing the "choke cables". But it is insanity to to get in there to pull the pins unless da bus in on blocks, a real good way to get kilt I'm very sure: NEVER GET UNDER AN UNBLOCKED BUS AND PLAY W/THE AIR SYSTEM (and its a good idea to always use "safety blocks" when working under any air suspension. A safety block should fit snuggly at or near the appropreate jacking point). Not very automated. It needs to be done from the drivers seat thats for sure.It would be nice to have the extra lift in a pinch. Anywho, those are my thoughts so far. I'm sure there is a very exspencive kit out there somewhere but the cost will piss me off and that will ruin my fun! Does anyone out the have this one puzzled up? If so, let us know! Thanks, TonyW | ||
| Charley DeWalt (63.178.231.134)
Rating: N/A |
This is one of those topics that has many different answers.Some people like to keep the auto leveling.I have a different opinion and I've seen it work on other bus's.I'm not there yet on my 82 Flyer. Here goes,the auto levelers are for changing loads as you woould have in a passenger bus.In a conversion,your load changes very little so why not eliminate the auto system and just run air lines,through a valve and guage at the console to your air bags.Set a comfortable pressure for the hiway and you have full manual leveling in the parked mode. A friend did this on an AM General,40ft and he carries about 70lbs in front and 85lbs in the rear on the hiway.He said it actualy rides smoother than the auto system did on the road. This is what I intend on doing.Just another opinion,and you know what those are worth  Have a good one, Chuck | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.68.130) Rating: N/A |
Hi Tony, Thanks for the empathy on that fuel situatuion. Yes, it was a hair puller! Ah yes, I had forgotten that FF was trying to keep the auto-levelling system and add to that a manual override. It occurs to me, as it does Charles, that the auto-levelling is rather unneeded on conversion. It seems the easiest way to accomplish a simple manual override would be with long push-pull cables. Although running air lines to the cockpit might be even easier, especially to maintain the control valves. But I have another question: Charles mentioned guages - which makes sense - is it possible to overinflate the airbags to the point of damaging them or 'popping' them like balloon? In other words, would a full 120 psi and a big road bump cause damage? That was one concern I had because if a total manual system was used, one would not know when they were at the max. unless a height measuring feedback system were rigged up. But that is complicated. Would guages satisfy this concern. Or is it not a concern. Ideally a full-proof system would be good. Hate to have someone bump a control valve and blow a bag by going too high. . . maybe it is not an issue. Thx. Scott | ||
| Steve Fessenden (63.25.54.181) Rating: N/A |
I don't think that a manual system is a good fix for a leaking air bag. The Auto level system will keep up with the leak for you. You eventually need to fix the leak. Another manual level device: Prevost used solenoid valves to enable the auto level on conversion shells. When you park you flip a switch that turns those solenoids off and then use a set of manual valves on the dash to level for camping. The solenoids are normally off and draw no power in the manual position. You could put the valves anywhere. I saw them in the bay near the water and electric so that they could be used to level the coach while you are outside hooking up the electric water and sewer hoses. If you are sneaking under a bridge or over a hump, you should be going slow enough to avoid damage to the auto control arms. If you want to see a factory system that lets you have + 4 inches, normal, - 4 inches ride height settings for driving see if you can look under an MCI Rennessaince to see how they did it. Steve Fessenden | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.68.130) Rating: N/A |
Hi Steve, I didn't mean to indicate I thought the manual levelling would solve my leak issue. Rather that since it looks like I have to get in there and mess with it to fix it, it was a good time to consider adding the manual system at the same time. I'd also considered the solenoid thing when I first bought my bus. But it seems one would need two solenoids for each valve. In my case a total of six solenoids. Something like this: One solenoid to activate the fill position, another to activate the dump position. When neither are engergized it would default to the hold position. This set-up would be on each valve - in my case one for each rear wheel and one for the front axle controlling both air bags. Is this what the prevosts do? Or is there a way to do it with only one solenoid per valve. Don't know if there are reversing solenoids that have two positions or something. Thx. Scott | ||
| steve souza (Stevebnut) (24.91.136.59)
Rating: N/A |
Scott; I removed my leveling valves and put four self relieving regulators in the dash and ran plastic brake hose to each pair of bags (i have eight) I have not road tested this yet but i can raise and lower the bus at will and i plan to set the air pressure using gauges. i bought the regulators at home depot about seventeen bucks apiece. hope this helps Stevebnut (steve) | ||
| Jim Stacy (12.87.108.212)
Rating: N/A |
Scott, A manual leveling system could very well cure your leak problem. Most leaks in a system with leveling valves are the valves themselves. I agree with Chuck, you don't need the auto levelers in a conversion. Your load just doesn't change that much. A four valve/ four gage system with no auto valves works very well for conversion. I am not speaking from conjecture but 4 years experience and 40,000 mile on my manual leveling system. My coach will sit for three months and not lose an inch at any corner. You can address any corner, not try to twist the front corner up or down by shifting the rear axle. When you determine what pressure is needed front and rear to achieve the factory ride height, it is a simple task from the drivers' seat for the few times it is needed. Simpler is better. It works just fine. Jim Stacy | ||
| don (Bottomacher) (64.20.66.225)
Rating: N/A |
Jim, some of us could really benefit from more detail about your system- location and type of valves, normal pressure range and controls to regulate pressure, routing of lines, etc. Would you be so kind? Thanks Don | ||
| Dwight (63.16.168.19)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Scott.. I used 3 solenoid valves per Air leveling valve, total 9 valves and 4 toggle switches. You should isolate the bag from the auto leveling valve with one valve, use one to raise and use one to lower, they are all normally closed, powered from an ingnition source, that way when you shut down the beast all of the valves are in the default closed position.. Just for information I replaced my front bags and the warning tag on my new bags stated not to exceed 100 P.S.I. I have a diagram on my site, if you wish to look at, www.homestead.com/dwib/ click on the Plans Button | ||
| JayJay (152.163.201.209)
Rating: N/A |
Seems as though Steve S. and Jim S. both have workable solutions. If you two gents would be so kind as to give forth with an Article of Interest for us more ignorant types, to give us a choice of types. Cheers...JJ | ||
| Steve Fessenden (63.27.89.1) Rating: N/A |
There are solenoid valves with more than one circuit in them. You could use 3 doubles. My manual valves are push pull normally closed valves. Push to inflate, pull to deflate. I believe that the system can also be built with all manual valves if you don't want electric. My system also has a warning buzzer and light that is activated if the ignition is on and the system is in manual mode, something that you could not easily do with manual valves only. Yes, you could disable the automatic system permanently, but why? Leveling valves are not expensive. Steve Fessenden. | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.68.130) Rating: N/A |
Steve, So how does your system share the control over the valves? Or do you have both the automatic levelling valves in addition to the solenoid valves? Scott | ||
| Steve Fessenden (63.27.89.84) Rating: N/A |
When the solenoids valves are open the automatic leveling valves are connected to air and dump. When the solenoid valves are closed the automatic valves are closed off by the solenoid valves. It seems that the manual valves are plumbed betweent the automatic leveling valves and the air bags. I can use the manual valves even when the system is on automatic but the automatic valves override any action I take unless the solenid valves are closed (the switch is in the manual position.) It is a standard Prevost RV shell system calle "Level Low". You might be able to get a scematic on it. Steve Fessenden | ||
| max muston (Radmax) (64.218.228.90)
Rating: N/A |
the way pnematic controls work demands a constant leak from the nozzel to the flapper which in turn controls a pnematic relay. depending on where the leveling valve is located it will increase/decrease pressure to the bags to achieve equalibriam. pardon the spelling. of course regulators do basicly the same way. if the goal is to minimze air loss maybe the answer would be to lock the air in the bags after parking with a redhat. if you got lots of air and don,t mind the compressor cycling at three am then regulators or long cables on the autolevelers would work great!! | ||
| Jim Stacy (12.87.109.149)
Rating: N/A |
My system is not one I invented. I purchased a kit from Coach Services in CA. It consists of a manifold with an air supply line providing air to each of four push/pull valves that are similar to an air driver's seat control valve. The output from each of these valves goes directly to the airbags in one corner of the coach. These two bags are tied together and to the line from the valve. There is a small pressure gage tied to this line at the valve. The entire system is just four lines, one going to each corner and a supply line. The push/pull valve allows raising or lowering the pressure at a given corner, and the gage tells you what's happening. It only takes a few minutes, one time, to determine what pressure is needed to maintain the proper height, in my case 50 lbs front and 45 lbs rear. If I do need to adjust the height at an uneven parking spot, it is a simple matter to return to "normal" pressure. The system, as I received it, came with a small panel with each gage mounted above it's valve. This panel is mounted in my dashboard and allows changing height right from the driver's seat. You can raise the coach in just a couple of minutes to full height if needed for that difficult driveway. No leveling valves, no solenoids, no air relays and NO LEAKS. Simple is sometimes better. Jim Stacy | ||
| Scott Whiteny (63.151.68.130) Rating: N/A |
Hi Jim, Sounds cool. How much was it and how easy was it to install? Thx. Scott BTW, is Coach Services the one in Paso Robles that I have heard has since moved to another state? I am in SLO, I'll check the phone book. | ||
| madbrit (216.67.210.15) Rating: N/A |
He has moved to Lake Havsu City in Arizona, about 60 miles from me. Email me if you want his phone number or go to his website, he has his new details there. Peter. | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.68.130) Rating: N/A |
Hi Peter, Ah yes, I found their Web site. The diagram there looks pretty straight forward: http://www.coachservices.com/ I'll have to contact them to see how much the system costs as the price is not shown on the site. Scott | ||
| Jim Stacy (12.87.109.247)
Rating: N/A |
My memory is subject to fuzziness, but I think I paid about $350 several years ago. This included nylon air lines, assembled panel and gages, about a pound of fittings and a sheet of "destructions". It had everything needed, as I remember. Gary Nickerson was the gentleman's name. I have purchased several items from him over the years. Great guy. Jim Stacy |