| Author | Message | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: |
Heya everyone! Yup. It's me. The nutball with the 60 foot monster named "Freedom"! I have a question... My arty came with some VERY nice "flipdot" destination signs, but they are before the time of truly customizable D-Sign controllers... The controller that mine has come with is from "Mark IV Industries", and is the "LUMINATOR" series produced and used in 1991. Does anyone know how to rewrite the destinations in the EProm for this particular device? Or the format for the data contained in the EProm? I'd like to make use of the D-Signs... The only one that doesn't work right now is the number sign on the very rear of the bus. I'm suspecting it's just a wiring issue. The other signs all work beautifully, and it doesn't appear that any of the dots are malfunctioning on them, as many flip-dot type signs end up getting. Any ideas? Cheers! -Mac | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
when are you going up there to get it ? | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Um... You haven't read my post down below... hehe... I already did. I got back Friday night... Here's the thread... http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/9372.html?1110764474  -Mac | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
congrats.... up there,to get an unknown bus ,in 8 degrees...I never figured you would get it out of the field..I-35 to 635 to I-20 was good route huh ?....stay on the big roads with that,......ya' flipped me out when you were picking out a silly route.I did not think you would listen...I'd say you are a fellow with determination......now ??? ....try to be determined not to be blown-up... | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I'd go to that website that has a club of destination sign guys... | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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you realy don't have time to mess with that sign...start system up..drain ALL air tanks,..pull all tires up on wood ...unhook all batteries...put about five pounds of rat poison in engine compartment & thruout the bus..try to park it somewhere where kids won't break out the windows..cover tires with tarps & secure VERY well..no time for signs.... | ||
| gillig-dan Rating: N/A |
Mac, The sign probably is programed so that each column is a string of binary coded information. It would depend on how many dots make up each column. The top or bottom dot would be the first bit in the string, the next dot up or down would be the second digit and so on. You are probably dealing with an 8-bit processor so there would be one memory location per every eight dots in the column. If there are more than eight dots per column, a second memory location would be needed to program that column. If you're talking about programing an EPROM, I assume what I'm saying makes some sense so far??? Some examples: To program all dots ON in a column, the memory location for that column would be 1111 1111 Bin, or FF Hex. All off, 0000 0000 Bin or 00 Hex. Every other dot on, 1010 1010 Bin or AA Hex. The columns should be in sequential locations on the eprom for all the columns of a single message then the whole memory record would repeat for the next message. You would need to dump the current EPROM to a computer file to attempt to decode it. Or, you could search the web to see if it's done for you already. Let me know if this makes any sense to you. Gillig-Dan | ||
| Vin (Billybonz)
Rating: N/A |
Mac, try luminatorusa.com | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
2D, It's just something I wanted to fart around with during my spare time. It's not something I am going to be actively pursuing and wasting time that should otherwise be used elsewhere. I'll pickle the engine and everything the way the operator's manual says to before I go, that way I'll have fewer things to FIX when I return. Even if the engine/tranny goes bad while I'm in Iraq, it'll be OK. I'm thinking I'd like to repower it to a bigger engine/tranny combo if possible anyway. And you better believe there'll be rodent poison throughout!! Those little bastards aren't going to eat my house, damnit! ---- Dan and Vin... I understand perfectly... But I've never dumped this kind of EProm before. I've also seen the web site mentioned by Vin, and sent an email to them early yesterday before this thread was started... Just waiting on a reply from them. But, I'm SUSPECTING they'll tell me they can't help me. I'll get it figured out eventually, but as I said before, it's not really a PRIORITY, just a bit of a curiosity. Also, I did find the patent covering the device, and it goes into some technical details... I just don't understand everything I'm looking at just yet. It's been a while since I worked with programmable devices like this at the bit/byte level. heh. Here's the patent: http://xrint.com/patents/us/4661808 From what I can tell, it's not stored the way you describe, but in fact, uses a complete character set and everything is stored in standard ASCII format... I may be wrong, I only skimmed over the information yesterday with everything else I've got going on. The EEPROM on board is an SGS-Thomson M276AFI. It's listed as an NMOS 64k (8K x 8) UV EPROM utilizing 12V programming. I know nothing about Windoze programming... so I wouldn't even know how to begin writing a dump program using the parallel port. Any ideas? I have an IDEA to use a Basic Stamp II I've got to use as an EEPROM type device, and mimic the M2764A chip's logic... But again, I haven't worked with this kind of stuff in a long time. About 5 years, to be exact... And like TwoDogs said above... I don't have a lot of time to screw with it *right now*. But I'd like to at least get some ideas to work with for later on. Cheers! -Mac | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Oh yea... Where exactly are the air tanks on this thing? What do they look like? How do I drain them? -Mac | ||
| gillig-dan Rating: N/A |
I've got an eprom programmer that will do 2764's and I could dump it to a computer file for editing. You're probably right, the messages are probably ASCII then the program would take care of the coversion to columns. I'm pretty rusty on working with this stuff also, not a big call for it these days. Be kinda neat if you could program straight to the columns so you could play with animating your display. You could be more "graphic" in your messages to cars that Gillig-Dan | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I have five Air tanks on my Eagle...no IDEA on your bus...underneath ...cylindrical...about twice the size of your head...drain valve on the bottom of each tank...do it while you have air in the system...I said 5 pounds of rat poison...not four...nothing like ruining a project like no insulation on ANY of your electric wires....you probably have 100 miles of wire in your coach... learn to holler "INCOMEING"......... | ||
| gillig-dan Rating: N/A |
"You could be more "graphic" in your messages to cars that...." ... cut you off." Sorry, hit the post button without finishing my message above. Gillig-Dan | ||
| Chris 85 RTS
Rating: N/A |
I also am interested in this. I sent Luminator an Email and after some time got a reply from a fellow who said I needed to send him my serial number and he'd be glad to help me. I have not followed up yet. Basically what I have heard is that they will help you, in that they will reprogram your controller for whatever messages you want, but I also heard it cost several hundred bucks, which I am not willing to pay. I have also joined a yahoo group, Destinators, but they are primarily into "roll signs" not flip-dot. However, one fellow there emailed me and suggested we pool our knowledge to figure this out. | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Dan... Well, realistically... I could make my own programmer as long as I could get my hands on the logic for the signs themselves... I'm highly suspecting it's a simple parallel interface with a clocked input using cascading counters to "sweep" the message into place... I could be wrong though. It could very well use an addressed system... but it would greatly increase the complexity of the circuitry... and as old as this thing is, I don't think they made it that advanced at that time... I'll ask the Luminator guys if they ever respond to me. If they don't, I'll just have to figure out a way to read the input signals from the controller to the signs... All of this, of course, will have to wait until after I arrive back from Iraq... but as I said... it's just a curiosity for now. ---- TwoDogs... I plan to load that thing with so much poison, they'll die just coming NEAR it. ;) And yea... I'd suspect there's many hundreds of feet of wire in there. The main electrical panel is just awe-inspiring. I'll get a pic of it and show it when I can... It's just HUGE. Cheers! -Mac | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
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Chris, you replied as I was typing my previous message. As stated in the last message... I'll write to them to at least try to get the sign's logic if nothing else... I think the patent information will be the most useful if I can just sit down with what I've got and work with it. If it's possible to mimic the EProm with a BASIC STAMP, then just about anything is possible... including immediate changes to the entire message queue with just a laptop and a serial cable! If I end up not going to Iraq... the DSign will be one of the first SMALL projects I start working on, just because I have the equipment to fool with it already. -Mac | ||
| Vin (Billybonz)
Rating: N/A |
Mac, the link you posted on the patent info should give you a good start. You sound quite electronically savy so you prolly know about this magazine but just in case you don't Nuts and Volts Magazine They have a great forum there. Bones | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Rating: N/A |
Sounds like a fun project! I'd be tempted to find out the drive circuit characteristics and dump their logic system altogether. I use PIC processors for this kind of project, but the basic stamp should work fine as well. (I know the PIC better and program it in 'C'; easier to twiddle things at the bit level for me.) If you indexed the columns and wrote the dots as data, you could loop through things quite easily. As someone else pointed out, you could also do simple animations this way. I would probably write an app on the host PC that mapped everythiing to the sign and just download the data rather than an onboard conversion. (Might make animation harder though). My favorite destination sign would be a ^ This Side Up ^ sign. Alas, due to some R & M updates I don't have a sign anymore... Programming Windows IO ports depends on the version of windows (of course). It is easier on the Win 9x kernel if you use win95io.dll. The documented SDK calls in the 9x software were not implemented, so don't spend a lot of time on it... use the win95io.dll and it gets easier. If you are on W2K or XP, then you do need to go through the OS, and I believe you should be able to find generic drivers for the parallel port. I haven't messed with this win i/o since a built a Pinewood Derby timer a few years ago, so caveat emptor! | ||
| Doug Dickinson (Dougd470)
Rating: N/A |
gillig dan Can you ssend me an address and I will send you one of my e-proms for you to read. If you send me the resultant file, I might be able to figure it out. Game? dougd470 at yahoo dot com | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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Mac - Check your private email. . . RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| gillig-dan Rating: N/A |
Doug, Check your email. Look forward to seeing if this thing can be easily hacked. Gillig-Dan | ||
| Chris 85 RTS
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I am guessing that the patent you really want is here: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/s rchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4,216,471.WKU.&OS=PN/4,216,471&RS=PN/4,216,471 | ||
| SkipEagle20
Rating: N/A |
I am amazed at how knowledgeable a group we have here. Possibly someone could help me on a different problem I have. I picked up a used "Screen Writer" projection panel at an auction that did not have a power supply. Not until I got home and did some research did I discover that the company is long gone. It has Minnesota Western Visual Prensentation on it but inside has a Chisholm Eprom chip so they may have manufactured it with Minn. applying their name. It has a five pin female connector on the side. Any ideas as to the voltages necessary to make it work? I always wondered if patents were available online so I shall try to figure out how to do a search (thanks Chris for showing that it can be done). Thanks everyone for making this a fantastic site. |
