| Author | Message | ||
| John G Root Jr (Johnroot)
Rating: |
Has anyone used the HWH Four-Point Air Leveling system? I have a 4106 www.hwh.com John G Root Jr PD 4106 1638 Rocinante | ||
| Jim Stacy
Rating: N/A |
I have used the 4 point system from Coach Services for 6 years with no problems. Works great. I believe the HWH system is similar. Jim Stacy | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
We have it in our Newell. It works great. Very different from Coach Services which we had in our 4106 | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
We had the HWH on both RVs. On both, the units were mounted to the frame. Where do they get mounted on a unibody bus? | ||
| John G Root Jr (Johnroot)
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The air leveling system uses the air bags and has a compressor to keep the air bags up independent of the engines compressor. How do people keep their busses level? Mine loses its air overnight sometimes and sometimes it stays up for days. I can't find any leaks and I look everytime it is over a pit for service! I don't find much about it searching the board. John G Root Jr PD 4106 1638 Rocinante | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
I would be interested in hearing just how much the HWH system for aig bags costs! It does sound nice, but with all the features of parked auto leveling and it's own compressor it must be pricey to buy and have installed. I made up my own manual over automatic system but the electic solenoid's check valves have a tendency to leak down so depending on the terrain I have to re-adjust every day or two. My system using 9 solenoids cost me around $500 in parts. John-- if your bus bleeds down like you describe I would suspect the automatic leveling valves are leaking-- this is very common. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Well, I asked HWH about a 6 point system for my artic... here's what he had to say... ---- Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:15:03 -0600 From: "Jeff Wallick" <jwallick^AT^hwhcorp.com> Add to Address Book To: phyrebyrd^AT^yahoo.com Subject: (no subject)air leveling Kevin, Yes it could be done but the engineering costs to develop the proper level valving, sequencing, etc. would not make it a very cost worthy system. The other problem is I do not have the engineering time available through our R & D departments to do a project like this. An Articulating bus creates many challenges. Thanks for your inquiry! Jeff Wallick HWH Corporation ---- Oh well. When I eventually get to the point where I need it, I guess I'll have to strike out on my own and make one myself. I have the basic idea in my head on the process to do it, but no practical experience with working on it yet... All in due time.  -Mac | ||
| John G Root Jr (Johnroot)
Rating: N/A |
I spoke to HWH and they want to do it at their facility in Iowa and it would cost just under $4,000. Now I wish I had a mechanical background so I could even think about figuring out how to do it myself. He was also concerned about copper air lines, and would want to replace with DOT lines - whatever they are. John G Root Jr PD 4106 1368 Rocinante | ||
| Craig Craddock (Gs4)
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I also have a Coach Services system I installed about 10 years ago with new DOT lines included. My bus stays up for months at a time. My original total cost was less then 350.00. I am sure it is more now. I am also very happy with it. As Geoff said the leveling values are usually the #1 leaking problem. I replaced my automatic leveling values several times they would last for a while and start leaking again. To me the HWH system is interesting but pricey compared to the manual system which is bullet proof. Just my opinion. | ||
| Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
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$4,000?! Ho-lee cow! Can't one just find a quiet compressor to plumb into the bus system and have the coach leveling system do its thang when parked? BB | ||
| John G Root Jr (Johnroot)
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Does Coach Services have a website? | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
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Have you tried http://www.hbindustries.ws/air_leveling.htm ? I don't have any experience with this, but the price seems reasonable. It is not automatic and all that, but it looks like more than 10% of the features for 10% of the cost... | ||
| Craig Craddock (Gs4)
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Coach Services Web site: http://www.tcsn.net/coachservices/homepage.htm | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
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I build mine for about $150. in part more or less. Its not hard to do the work . Its just hard to fit under and around axles to do. I dont use any electric valves and mine works as factory or I can over ride it and adj it to any height. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bigbusguy/detail?.dir=e409&.dnm=b7cf.jpg&.src=ph If your a member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gmc-busnuts/ Look in the file section better pic there. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
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Jim Stacy and GS4, I'm a little confused with the links shown. I can't get the Coach Services link to run, but I have seen their ad in BCM, and they are (were ??) located in Lake Havasu City, AZ. Craig's link is for HB Industries in El Cajon, CA. And this panel looks different. Has HBI and Coach Services merged, or are they simply competitors? Regarding the Coach Services system, is it fairly easy to install with full access under the bus? Thanks, Chuck Newman Oroville, CA | ||
| Craig Craddock (Gs4)
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Chuck I tryed the link I posted and it worked for me. It is for Coach Services now located in Lake Havasu City, Arizona. Phone number 928-680-4200 E-mail coachservices@tscn.net I looked at the HB Industries system on the above link and it is very similiar to Coach Services. I did not see a check value in HB's. They are competitor's as far as I know. I did not remove the wheels as per HB instructions. I did block the bus per Coach Services instructions because you are letting all of the air out of the air bags.. It has been a long time but I think I installed my system in about 6 hours. The worst part was removing all of the old automatic factory leveling system. | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
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Do any of you understand that when you remove the factory automatic leveling valves is that you now have to make all the air adjustments for hwy travel? I know the instructions say you mesure the bus before the install and set back to that with the new system. But what it will not do is add air when you add #1500 LBS of fuel or remove air as the fuel is used up. I know the people that have the systems say they notice no differance. You may not notice but your bus will. In most buses there is only about 3 to 4 inchs from normal ride hight to bottomed out . Just having some one get one your bus will add some air in most buses. So if you add weight and not add air the sepension will bottom out easyer in a hard bump. In a strong cross wind your bus will have no way to level it back up. There is no way I would want to remove the auto levelers . If you buy one of the premade systems set it up where you can keep the auto levelers to work when not parked. Im not trying to sell any thing or say the systems out there are not good. Most of them have if you buy the extra stuff will let you keep the factory level controls. Thats the way I would go. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| t gojenola
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Coach Services web site: http://www.coachservices.com/ tg | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
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I agree with Brian-- the best leveling system will retain the automatic leveling system that came with the bus with the option of manual leveling while parked. The Coach Services system totally eliminates the automatic system, and in my opinion, is overpriced for what you get. If you can figure out how everything works, making up your own system is the way to go. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| Vin (Billybonz)
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I have a lot of other work to do before considering installing a leveling system, but I have been thinking about how to go about building one. The constuction of my Fishbowl doesn't allow the use of leveling jacks so I have ruled that out. I was thinking about putting a stepper motor driving a lead screw connected to the leveling valve arm. Hard to explain what I mean, instead of the arm connecting directly to the coach body, it would connect to a block on the lead screw. The motor would move the block up and down, adding or releasing air as needed to level the coach. Oh, and it doesn't have to be a stepper, a DC servo motor with an encoder could work too. The idea is to move the arm to level the coach, then put it back into position for driving. The system would just have to remember what position it would have to be in to level the coach for highway use. Does this make any sense? Pros and cons...need input. Bones | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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I used linear actuators to electrically adjust the factory ride-height valves from the cockpit when parked. As a bonus, I can adjust them on-the-fly to surmount obstacles, etc. See this thread, which describes this and links to some photos: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/5646.html?1078872754#POST34290 The rest of the thread is relevant here, too. -Sean | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
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I have designed / assembled / tested a number of (Air over auto levelers) systems. I have been acquiring high quality new and used soleniod valves for the last year. I have started putting resonably prices packages together. The system I designed and installed on my RTS conversion can raise or lower any corner almost 12" does not use check valves does not leak back thru the valve when parked and the supply air drains away Has no operating minimum air bag pressure - can drain the air bag to zero PSI - The design and valve soleniod selection allows 3 settings: Auto - Levelers functional ADJ - Manual Fill and dump (Raise and Lower) HOLD - while parked - or to override auto levels alavailable with 12 or 24 volt soleniod coils I supply all the valves (Fill-Raise / Dump-lower / Isolate-auto leveler) valves and the wiring/pneumatic diagrams - you supply the electrical switches / lines / fitting / install labor- to match your buses requirement - @ $100 to $125 (depending upon valve selection) per CORNER available in 3 or 4 point/corner systems I also installed electrical pressure senders on my unit the monitor my air bags and suspension supply and alarm at adjustable set points (low and high) http://www.airbagit-store.com/product.asp?returnURL=default.asp&ID=84697  Pete Papas RTS/Daytona - DBA (D.P.Solutions) Ormond Beach Florida 386***672***0571 .____________ /_][][]/____/[]_| 1989 RTS-II T70206 6V92-TA DDEC-II V731 4.10/24.5 *--O-----------O-* Daytona FL.-Hard Beaches/Soft Women P.S. Using the auto levels and changing the length of the adjusting rod can have a draw back - as you move around - (get in get out) of your bus the auto levels will keep adjusting - until there is no longer enough presure in the suspension tank to return a corner to its adjusted height setting | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
Pete that sounds like a good price. What size lines do you use? Also is it all mounted up front? Also good point on the changing the length of leveler valves . You would need a air compressor to to keep the air up all the time. One thing I found out with mine It has the opitinal HD sway bars front and rear is if I have air in the front and air in the left rear and let all the air out of the right rear my bus will not come down on the right. Im sure when its finished converted with more weight it will come down. I need to let air out of both side to get it to tilt. But having conntrol over the air bags is one of the best tools for doing work under the bus by lifting it up and also use of proper blocking to keep it up. I never leave home without the blocks for repairs on the hwy. I also have spacers the fit between the axle and the rubber bumpers so there is no way the bus will come down and jack stands under the axle. Nothing short of a sink hole will bring my bus down on me. Can you tell Im bored held hostage here not working on my bus  Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon (Kanasas City) | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
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Brian Line size - just about any size - all the valves have 1/4 NPT fittings they can accomidate 1/4 - 3/8 - 1/2 dot plastic lines. Each valve has a Cv rating (flow rating) of approx 1 to 1.5 cv that's 7 to 10 times more flow than the bus air leveler schrader valve - so manual raise and lower happens much quickly then thru the auto leveling system (which needs to be slower) Mounting - I prefer to mount the control solenoids under the floor of the bus and near the leveling valve for accessiblity (most of the valves I use have manual overides - just in case). I used 4 wire trailer cable to wire mine (one wire each for raise / lower / auto / separate ground) and a shielded wire for the pressure sender - only the control switches get mounted up front Pete RTS/Daytona | ||
| Jim Stacy
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Well, you can discuss all the theory you want, but the fact is a conversion doesn't change weight as a seated coach does. In the real world removing the leveling valves eliminates the main source of air leaks, and the manual system works great. My 50 year old '04 routinely sits (or drives) for 6 months at a time without losing height. It just doesn't need tinkering with since I removed the darn leveling valves. Simple is better. Jim Stacy | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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Jim, My coach goes up/down by 4,500 pounds, or about ten percent of the total weight of the coach. I think that's significant enough to warrant needing the ride height valves. Also, on my coach, the ride-height control is dynamic, stabilizing the coach when it goes around corners. When we had restrictors in the lines, the coach would roll excessively when cornering. Now that the ride-height system is fully functional, the roll is much more manageable. I'd be uncomfortable removing the ride-height valves on this type of coach. We have a compressor on board to keep the air up when parked, which takes care of the slight regulation the valves do when we move around the coach or load/unload the motorcycles. We need the compressor anyway, since both the toilet and the front door are air-operated. -Sean | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
The Real fact bus conversion or seated coach make no difference you add weight the levelers added air. I can tell just stepping on mine it will add some air. Now in the older style pancake type air bags you probably not notice much difference the ride is much poorer and stiffer in that type any way. The rolling lobe type have a better ride and softer the bus will move more easy with just 1 person or 50. And the ride height is affected more by small amounts of air pressure then you will see in a pancake type air bags so Jim is 1/2 right his bus may not be affected much he can tell but I'm sure it is. Also if you set it up right the auto levelers are cut out in the parked setting if your manuling adjusting the air. And my 30 yr old auto levelers dont leak any and hold for weeks. The key is a properly maintained air system free of water and oil . The best system would use both the auto levelers and the capability of a manual over riding them and adjust the coach manually. And if you go one step farther it would use no power or only momentary power at the valve. I used all manual valves and have both factory levelers and full manual control. It dont matter what some one posts there will be people here who's opinions are based on something they are selling (some use several different names here) others are based on what they bought and wont admit that it may have not been the best choice. I base any of my opinions on what I have done or have saw done not on selling any thing. And if I did something that dont work or works worse then before I would be the first to say so. And the one mistake I made was to buy a 25yr old GMC or any old bus. If it the company is not making buses now dont buy that type. Im sure when I finish converting mine the V drive or rear end will blow up and I will pay more for a replacement part then a 20 year newer bus would cost. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon(kanasas city) |
