| Author | Message | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Man, what an ordeal, made exponentially worse being in Alaska. At the end of it all I have a rebuilt 3rd member, 2 new tires, new rear brakes complete services-all fluids, oils, etc, 3 new air bags on the front and 2 new good year tires on the back. Tomorrow I need to get the front wheels balanced as I noticed a shaking...All in all a great running bus...NOW!..Should be a nice bus for someone should I decide to sell it when I get to the lower 48..Michael Kraft has been indispensible in helping, overnighting parts up to me, and talking me through it all and I'm stopping by Tulsa to have him go over the bus and give it a look see. Also, I had a meeting with the owner of the tow company who ripped up my rear and and offered him a settlment. We feel he is going to take it so I'm crossing my fingers. Anyway, so it seems Saturday morning i'm off, on the road to the lower 48...FINALLY! | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Aren't tow operators liable for anything they break? They operate under a guise of professionalism.... At the very least, they've got to be liable for the cost of the parts, plus the flat rate labor it takes to install them. I wouldn't let anyone hook up to my bus unless they could show me in writing that they'll pay for anything they break in the process of moving it... But then, I'd be hard pressed to find ANY tow operator that would be willing to even hook up to my bus I think!  I could be mistaken on more than one thing above... -Mac | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
It's like arguing with a waiter or cook, before you get the food.. (This tastes like spit; what was I thinking) Pointing out that he shouldn't be lifting by the bus bumper, and giving him explicit instructions regarding where exactly to do the lifting, would be great! Asking if they're going to assume liability for damage, will probably result in your looking at his taillights fade in the darkness of night.. | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Well I had no choice as these were the only guys who would tow the bus and they didn't know they had to disconnect the drive shaft and drop the Axle..Neither did I, but then again it's not my business to know. He is trying to discern whether it can be proven that he broke the bus since it's really my word against his as to whether it ran before he towed it...The way it's going to go down is he is going to pay me out of pocket because if he doesn't and I take him to court, it goes to his insurance and since he pays $40K a year as it is, his rates will go up more then the amount he will have to pay me. This was out of his own mouth, so i'm hopefull. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Tell him: "My pal (friend, relative, uncle, etc) lawyer" said that you oughta' call your insurance company as soon as possible and he (or she) said, that's what insurance companies are for. Adding that your "lawyer" also said that -you- should call your own company also... and that your company will go after his company automatically... A truck repair shop ruined the engine in our Winnebago. Total negligence on their part. They wanted to settle up with a check for 3k and not call their insurance company. The final bill to their insurance company for a new engine (454 long block, carb, exhaust, intake, harness repairs, etc) installed at a local RV repair shop, was 12k. Their insurance company paid in full. Tell 'em to put the claim in, or your attorney will do it for them. | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
John..From what everyone is saying up here, civil court is backed up a couple years and if it does go to small claims I will get the full $5000 plus my expenses for having to fly back up here. He will take the hit for the claim from his insurance company. I offered him a good settlement first so I do not have to go through all the hassle and can get most of my money now. I'm really hopefull he will see the logic and just pay me. If not, I'll get my cash by summer. | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Well, I'd rather see the tow truck's tail lights than see parts of my bus being strewn down the road or missing when we get to where we're going. If he doesn't know what he's doing hooking up to the bus, then he shouldn't be hooking up at all. As this entire thread points out... it can be quite expensive otherwise. I'll be trying to find out the proper proceedures for towing my bus before I start taking it out on the open road, and making sure any tow operator gets those instructions in printed form before they even try to hook up. And if he doesn't follow them to the letter, I'll be telling him to call someone else willing to follow proceedure. I'd rather pay someone to come an extra 50 or 100 miles than pay for a new tranny or worse... the articulation mechanism! $20k in my bus, isn't it? Cheers! -Mac | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Heh. A post always seems to sneak by while I'm typing a response!! If the settlement is the cost of what you had to shell out... go for it. Otherwise, I'd let insurance take care of it unless you absolutely NEEDED the cash from what you offered him NOW. Typically, court isn't even necessary once insurance steps in. Unless, of course, the insurance company wants to drag their feet... Then it's inevitible. Of course, my experience with insurance has only been with smaller automobiles, not the big iron. -Mac | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Mac...He's not admitting liability...Thats the problem..According to him, how does he know the rear end wasn't messed up before he towed it? Ya see? I can prove quite easily it wasn't and they he failed to follow the proper procedure for towing the bus, so I know I will win if he contests it and it ends up going to court but I don't think it will. It's going to be the same with the insurance company. How do they know It wasn't messed up before they towed it. However, they know from their prospective, if it gets to them they will have to pay so I'm sure they will write me a check. Now you have me rethinking my settlement offer which was for $3K | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Nawww, Sean... The Insurance company won't argue. No insurance company (or lawyer) wants to go to court, it's cheaper by far, to just pay the claim. They feel: why gamble with a court process and chance more expenses and loss? Tell the guy that he'd better put the claim in, or find out what company he has and call them yourself. He's leaving himself and his business to a more extraordinary (costly) settlement, by refusing to file a claim. It really irks me.. I don't carry insurance to "protect myself", I carry insurance to protect someone I may have caused damage to, from any financial loss. When someone refuses to take responsibility for the damages they cause, they will end up paying double. Lawyers aren't to blame for lawsuits and courtroom dates, those that refuse to take responsibility for their actions, are. The guy's company will pay your claim, but you'll be taking your chances with the guy that hasn't kept his word so far. What would you do if after agreeing to pay, he doesn't? Or if you find other problems related to the damage caused by them, a week from now? He's got insurance, he's a fool not to call immediately. Ask him if he's talked to -his- attorney... That oughta' do it. | ||
| Vin (Billybonz)
Rating: N/A |
Sean, I doesn't matter whether the rear end was shot before the tow truck showed up or not. The towing company didn't follow proper procedure. I used to drive a truck for a Navistar dealer and the 3 times I needed to get my truck towed, they pulled the drive shaft. All the trucks that got towed into the shop had drive shafts pulled. Seems to me to be standard procedure. That's why we had a small tractor at the shop, because all the trucks towed in could not move even if the engine would start. The mechanics would put the drive shaft back on after the truck was hauled into the bay. "how does he know the rear end wasn't messed up before he towed it?" If his driver had pulled the shaft, he wouldn't have to know. Another example, towing company picks up a Lincoln Towncar on a flatbed. The car has a computer controlled air ride system. Appearently there is some procedure required when towing this car so as not to damage the air ride. The driver cranked the chains down on the car and moved it to the shop. The fuel pump was replaced but now the cars air compressor is burned up from the ride home. How does the towing company know the compressor was working before the tow? They didn't...but they paid. I guess the proper thing to do was disconnect the battery in this case but the driver failed to do so. Bones | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
I'm going to find out who his bonding company is tomorrow...You all now have me thinking my settlement offer was too generous. So if he refuses to call his insurance company, I can call them directly and file a claim? I did not know that..I would have done that a month ago had I known it and this would have been settled. Thanks. By the way, this guy says he tows buses all the time up here and never pulls drive shafts or drops Axles. | ||
| BrianMCI Rating: N/A |
Vin is correct, if they didn't pull the driveshaft of your bus prior to towing it... it becomes their liability. After all, it can be proven conclusively that not disconnecting a driveline will ruin the rear end, but at this point it would be almost impossible for them to prove that the rear-end was toast before they hooked up. And THAT is a lot more than simply "your word against his" In my opinion, he is justifiably trying to cover his ass, and to a degree, you are letting him. Of course, having said that, with the little he has to cover his ass, it bound to be an ugly sight. Brian | ||
| BrianMCI Rating: N/A |
He keeps trying to cover his exposed cheeks BUTT it's still ugly. Brian | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
I've been driving a wrecker for about 4 years. Like lawyers & cops, the 85-90% that are crooked, incompetent, or both ruin it for the honest guys. I'm rather proud of the fact I have NEVER damaged (beyond tire scuffs) anything I towed--including more than one $75-80,000 vehicle (offhand, a Mercedes ML55AMG, a ZO6 Corvette, & a couple Porsche 911's). The look on the face of a yuppie in a $50,000 Benz when I pull up in a 33-year-old F-800 or a banged-up 86 F-350 is PRICELESS. Mac: Your Flyer would need a heavy-haul semi wrecker, probably a tri-axle for the weight. He'd definitely have to pull the axles (assuming your trans is like every other Allison I've dealt with & can't be towed). In other words, hang on to your wallet. Sean: The guy cost you $7400. He needs to be held accountable for the full amount. Ideally, he needs to be driven out of business. PS--Vin's post is why I prefer to tie down air-ride vehicles with straps over the tires, rather than the frame. If I need to hoist the car (in other words, when I don't have a rollback), I either pull the air-ride fuse or disconnect the plug at the compressor. | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Well now, I don't know if I'd go so far as to run him out of business... Everyone makes mistakes. But, those mistakes should be corrected properly and in a reasonable amount of time. In this case, since he's refused a VERY resonable offer for over a month, he's obviously got it in his head that you're just going to fade away without much of a fight. Here's what I'd do... Tell him time's up. The offer is no longer on the table, it's time to bring the insurance into the picture. You only have a certain amount of time to get this done... It may already be past that time, I don't know... but the time for reasonable offers is done. Now it's time to hit him up for what he should've paid in the first place.... Take it to the insurance company. If he refuses to divulge his insurance information, call the police. They'll get it from him. Then (if he did refuse to give you the information), call the BBB and the other places in town to report him for poor business practices and liability concerns. "Be the good Citizen", in otherwords... Give him one more chance by laying it out on the table for him to give you the insurance information to file the claim. After that, all bets are off, and so are the gloves. -Mac | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
One more thought (I hit post too quickly. heh)... Give him the option of coughing up the $7400 now or coughing up the insurance information.... If he's smart, he'll write you a check. -Mac | ||
| Vin (Billybonz)
Rating: N/A |
OK, Just to get an "expert opinion", I just got off the phone with the MCI service center, 800-241-2947. According to them, if it is an automatic trans, pull the axles...easier then removing the drive shaft. If it is a manual trans, you don't have to...BUT, I quote "a smart tow truck driver should pull the axles anyway." Why?...to avoid incurring any liability for drivetrain damage. "You can't be blamed for damage to a disconnected drivetrain". Which is cheaper, paying a driver for a few hours of labor to pull the axles or paying for repairs with out-of-pocket $$$ or higher insurance rates, and making an unhappy customer. ...and thats all I gotta say about that, Bones | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
If the guy is truly hell bent on not accepting liability, I doubt that he is going to just tell you who his insurance company is. With you leaving town, so to speak, where does that leave you? I don't know Alaskan law, but I assume he is registered with a business license even if not incorporated, and I'm sure that there is some kind of consumer division in some State agency that has jurisdiction over his operation. Before you haul out of there I would find out some contact information for just such an agency and file a complaint as a beginner. I doubt that any such agency will recover your money for you, but they may well put enough heat on him to make him "own up". | ||
| chance Rating: N/A |
Not that I don't think this tow company is liable for the damage to the rear end, and the owner is trying to wait Sean out, but according to Sean, the $7400 included more than just the rearend... "At the end of it all I have a rebuilt 3rd member, 2 new tires, new rear brakes complete services-all fluids, oils, etc, 3 new air bags on the front and 2 new good year tires on the back." If I recall correctly, Sean's bus was towed because it wouldn't air up. Most of the stuff on this list was related to the air problem, or was optional repairs, and not related to the damage caused by the tow company. The only item on the list related to the tow seems to be the third member. Sean indicated a $5000 figure in a later reply, so I'm going to "assume" that's the real amount of the repair to the damage caused by the tow. That's the amount you should be going to the insurance company for. Not a dollar more or less. Give the owner one chance to pay the entire amount in cash. Remind him if you go to court you may be entitled to loss of use damages, attorney fees, and costs, also. If he refuses or stalls, contact your own insurance company. They may work it out with his insurance through arbitration at no cost to you. If they are unwilling to help, contact an attorney to pursue the case in court. If he cuts you a check, run to his bank and cash it immediately. | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Right Chance it's just shy of $5000...Of course that doesn't include my 2 extra weeks I had to stay in AK to get it fixed, my Lady Friend's plane ticket down to MO because she had to be there by this weekend and now can no longer fly out with me...A couple more grand he cost me in expenses. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Sean- No.... -You- can't file the claim, but after you notify his company, they'll advise him to file a claim. They're legally obligated to advise him to protect himself after they become aware of the situation. Oh, and Sean..... You are filing a claim for your expenses attributed to the inconveniences regarding this matter, along with the cost of repairs. That would include any/all expenses; food, lodging, phone calls, missed days of employment... When someone costs you money, you have the right to collect; the right to be reimbursed. And they should be honorable enough to have made those financial provisions to you. We all insure that we can, by carrying a insurance policy that provides all that will be needed monetarily, to reimburse those that we cause harm to. If it were me, I would -not- seek less than every single penny I have lost due to their negligence. If your company caused the owner of that company as much inconvenience and losses, would they consider a token payment for their losses? They'd ask you: You got insurance? | ||
| chance Rating: N/A |
Who did the work? Was it the same company that towed your bus? You said it cost you an extra 2 weeks. Did that 2 weeks include all that extra work (brakes, bags, etc), or was that 2 weeks just to fix the rearend? If it were me, I'd be inclined to "settle" for the out of pocket expenses it cost me to get the bus fixed (i.e. $5000). I'd eat the rest. Use the extra as the stick to get the guy to take the carrot you're offering just so you can avoid the hassle and get out of there with this resolved and behind you (literally). | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
And why do you not have a Liar For Hire taking care of this? Richard | ||
| t gojenola
Rating: N/A |
And, Sean: could you also post the name of the towing outfit so others of us here in Alaska could possibly avoid using them? thanks, tg | ||
| jimmci9 #2 Rating: N/A |
no offense intended, but i don't see how not pulling axles or dropping the driveshaft caused a rear-rend problem...maybe causing auto trans problems from lack of lubrication... but gear problems in the rear end differential???... think you need to get an expert gear mechanic involved and quit guessing as to what really happened....not speculation by the contributors here, me included...all you're accomplishing by this thread is slamming a towing company....you need to assume some responsibility, like not letting them tow if they can't/don't do it properly....the busses we operate are not what the tow operators normally see... and we need to be educated on what is necessary....if you don't understand your systems, learn it... if you are not willing to learn about your bus, then you don't need to be on the highways....lets the flames begin!!!! | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
I dont think pulling the drive shaft has any thing to do with the rear end going out any more then pulling your towed in nutral. It may dammage a auto trans in a bus. If I remember right it was them trying to get it to move putting it in F then R back and forth probley nutrel droping it a few times. Sounds just like the same guys that towed Rayhounds mc5 thay also could not get the brakes to release and did about the same to it only his bust a few years down the road Im sure the dammage was done but it just worked a little longer. Rayhound was also from Alaska but I dont know if thats where is bus is from. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Jimmci9...Got experts involved in this...Michael Kraft, MCI, and others...All say he did it. Rear was fine before the tow. Gear guys said they didn't know how it happened, and so did Alaska Truck Center...Also, I'm very willing to learn about my bus..I hadn't even drivin it yet when I had it towed due to an air leak problem, so I was an extreme newbie..Can't be flamed in that instance. I'm getting more educated as the minutes go by at this point and I agree that we all have to be. The towing outfit was WEBB towing..Don't let them tow your coach but I really dont' think you have to worry about that as the owner told me he will no longer tow any buses like mine, and I guess that would include all of yours. And Richard, things work a little differently up here with the courts. They are ALL for the little guy and I've been advised by any attorney that I don't need one at this point. Even if it goes to small claims with me against the insurance company I've been advised that the court frowns upon attornies present and will make the big guy do me right...The civil courts up here are backed up years so if the insurance didn't pay, we would go small claims here in AK | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
The main reason to pull the axles or drive shaft is the angle the rear end is in when towed the shaft dont line up right and that dammages it . And if the air is out it will also put the drive line in a bind. Also some trucks have oil pumps in the trans that dont work with the motor off. A GMC 4905 Manual trans need the motor to run to have oil PSI in the trans(yes GMC's have oil pressurised 4 speed man trans with oil filters). So pulling the axles is the easy way to tow it. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
Sean- I really have to laugh at that remark about being "responsible" enough to tell the guy you're paying to do a job, how to actually do the job... and the insinuation that it's your fault if you don't know enough to correct the professional you're paying. I guess we better all go to medical school; major in pharmaceutical sciences........ get licenses for plumbing and electric..... get a college degree in every area of expertise we may ever be in need of..... otherwise, when some idiot ruins our stuff or causes our loved one to die, it'll be our own fault. *Gee that telephone pole fell on our home because it wasn't in the ground deep enough. I should have known enough to tell that telephone company crew.* | ||
| jimmci9 #2 Rating: N/A |
if the gear experts and the repair place don't know how it happened, wonder who does?????....they are the ppl that diagnosed/repaired....those are your own words....better hope that you have the broken parts if it goes to lawsuit....cause if you can't produce......... | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Jimmci..There is no way to conclusively tell but since it ran fine in the yard before they towed it and there are various witnesses to that and couple that with the fact that they didn't tow it the way the manual states, I believe I could easily convince a judge that me, "The little guy" got screwed here. If I take them to court it will be small claims and it just doesn't work like me having to produce chunks of gears from my rear end. | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Rating: N/A |
All I can say is be careful when you need a tow. Even one under a towing plan. Goober Sam sent me four wrong trucks during two seperate tows. One wasn't even the right company. This guy had a "medimum" sized truck. I told him his boom was not long enough. By this time I was so sick of this fine new pusher piece of junk (second breakdown within three weeks of purchase), I let him try. After several cracking sounds I told him to hit the road. Got rid of it soon thereafter. For any bus you need a ten wheel tractor with a minimum 100 inch boom. The same tow truck the 18 wheelers use. And they know how to tow. Chuck Newman Oroville, CA | ||
| Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach)
Rating: N/A |
HI Folks: I have been reading this thread and it is a real unfortunate situation for our Brother Sean!!! If you ever find yourself in the "unfortunate situation of having to be towed", regardless of your towing plan, tell whoever you talk to, that the towing company must have "Under-reach", or roll on-roll-off capability. The Under-Reach trucks have a hydraulically operated boom that reaches under your coach and lifts it by the front axle. The truck operator then lifts it, crawls under and attaches securing chains, attaches an air line to your coach for suspension fill and brake release and you can then be towed anywhere!!!!! The problem with "Lifting Tow Trucks", is that they must support their chains under the front bumper, or structure, with Boards or other material, and the net effect is usually body damage. Now I understand that if a person is in Alaska, or out in the middle of nowhere, this could be a problem, but to the best of your ability, get the best tow vehicle out there for the design of your coach, lest you find yourself in Sean's situation!! AND DEFINATELY THEY MUST PULL AXLES!!!!! I arrange for towing for our customers quite often, and I make sure that the towing company has the proper equipment!!! So far, so good, no damage to a customer's coach, by a towing company that I have recomended or engaged, that has the proper equipment for towing, or flat-bedding a coach. Just leaving, and ready to celebrate my 62nd Birthday tomorrow with my Family!!! Happy and SAFE!!! Bussin to ALL. LUKE at US COACH | ||
| H3 (Ace)
Rating: N/A |
Have a HAPPY Birthday Luke, and many many more! Thanks.... Ace & Susan | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Happy birthday Luke and Thanks for chiming in! On another note, I had to take the bus back in this morning because of a loss of power..Limped back in at anywhere from 5mph-38mph...There was crap in the fuel line..They blew it out drove it and it was great. I went to get it, had to re-set up all my UHaul and hitch wiring arrangements for the 4th time, and got about a mile before i lost power again. Limped it back and they will drain the entire fuel tank and system out..Only thing is I'm stuck here until Monday when they do it so that means I don't get on the road until Tuesday...3 days late!..Well later. Wish me luck and thanks for all the advice. | ||
| Ed W
Rating: N/A |
On the fuel problem you might be ahead to just replace any rubber fuel lines while you are doing things. You might have a flapper or loose lining coming apart in the line and causing obstruction. | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
just a little update...Fuel looked like sludge..They are draining the whole system out. Thought I would have the bus back today but no dice. I assume by mid day I'll probably have it back. Fuel lines were fine though. Still sitting in a hotel. My lady friend flew down to MO on Sat morning and will have to wait for me for at least 3 days in a hotel at this point after she drops her kids off. Gotta love it! Never heard back from the tow guy on my offer. Sending a certified mail letter with copies of all repair bills, airline ticket and hotel receipt tomorrow with a request for payment or further legal action. This is required by law up here before i can file the case. I'll give him 10 days to respond. I'm hoping he will just turn it over to his insurance company at that point and we work it out before i have to fly up here for court. We'll see. | ||
| chance Rating: N/A |
Don't put your name in the return address portion of the letter (only your address). If he sees it, he'll likely not sign for it. If he doesn't sign for it, you haven't served him, and can't proceed till you have. You'll have to hire a process server to hand deliver the papers to him, and I bet process servers are hard to come by in Alaska. I suggest you turn this entire matter over to a local attorney who can follow up on everything. If you leave the area, I predict you will eat the entire amount. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Sending it certified means it got delivered. That's all you need. Hell, the Gubberment sends you jury duty notices 1st class mail... and tax payment notices... If the guy reads your letter or not, doesn't matter. He's still liable and the longer he puts you off, the more contemptible and irresponsible he's going to look to the court. Getting an attorney involved is going to cost you around 1/3 of the amount settled for. Attorney fees are usually paid by the losing party only if you end up going to court, but you'll have to ask about that. My attorney settled out of court with their insurance company for all repairs and losses, including his fees. They knew they'd lose in court and the expenses of fighting it would have cost even more. I would suggest getting an attorney involved, or at least talk to one about the case. There's an old adage.... (Abe Lincoln, I believe?) "A lawyer that represents himself, has a fool for a client." You stand to lose a lot if you miss some legal point. Using someone trained and experienced can bring a peace of mind that will be worth it's own weight. | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
an attorney is simply not needed for Small Claims court, if it even goes there..This is especially true in Alaska..The judges in Alaska severely frown upon them in the room from from what many many have told me.... The judge will want us to work it out and if we can't he will consider the case but they simply have zero time for attorneys up here in Small Claims court. It's a waste for me. I've already looked into it. Plus i'm contacting the tow company's bonding company directly and they will force him to file the claim from what i'm being told and mostly likely settle with me. If they refuse to settle and want to go to court, at that point I may consult an attorney and i'm sure they will settle then because like in Jonn's case, they will lose in court. Chance, I'm not eating a cent on this deal. If need be, i'll be on the first plane up here if anything goes down. | ||
| chance Rating: N/A |
Maybe, and maybe not... Every state has their own rules regarding small claims. I don't know about Alaska, but I can say for a fact that in Arizona, if a small claims suit is responded to by an attorney (i.e. the defendent hires an attorney, the case is AUTOMATICALLY transferred to justice court. Bye Bye small claims court and any chance in hell of resolving the case amicabily or inexpensively because you cannot represent yourself effectively against a liar and cheat. Also, some states limit the monetary value to $3000 or less. Anything over that can't be filed in small claims court. Don't take too much for granted. The legal system is set up by lawyers, for lawyers and is run by lawyers (or ex-lawyers). As such, it's all corrupt! Even in Alaska. I'm pulling for you, but I hope you aren't taking this too lightly. Hopefully you are right about the bonding company and it will never get to the courts. | ||
| DMDave Rating: N/A |
We could have a bussin convoy head north to help out Sean. We have enough characters on the board even for Alaska! Sean good luck on this, thanks for sharing this lesson. Never heard of having to pull the axles before but seems to be the right thing. | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks guys...Yea it's a crazy situation but even crazier is the fact that I can't seem to get out of here!!!! Had the bus running great, airing up great!..got her cruising on the Highway at 70mph, although she slows down even at the slightest hill..(6V71) I suspected it still had an air problem even though Alaska truck was supposed to have taken care of it all because when I would let it idle and open the door to go out of the bus, The air would run down to 60psi. I would have to get back in close the door and wait for the air to build up again before I could go. That doesn't seem right to me...Anyway, We were loading my things into the bus, it was idling and the side door was open obviously. When we were done, I tried to get the air to build up again so we could leave...NOTHING, NADA....Couldn't get the air to build above 55psi...Wasn't hearing it blow out anywhere else either...What, all of a sudden my compressor goes?..So I try to shut the bus off to reset it all..Maybe it will air up..The bus will not turn off!! I hit every emergency swich, was in every engine compartment with my Manual cracked trying to shut the fuel off but i'm too much of a novice..I finally quit 15 min ago and came home..so the bus will idle all night and I will call Alaska Truck and have them send someone up here to find out what happened since they were supposed to fix the air problems...I mean DAMN I have the money and told them I was driving to the lower 48!!! Why can't they fix it correctly????? All in all, someone is going to get a bus in which I fixed or replaced $10,000 worth of stuff!! It should be great for someone looking for a 35 foot shell to convert......I'm over and out of it...I'm simply not into being inside, under and all over a machine...Not my thing...I like to get in and start it and go!!...At least I realized this about myself...When I get down to the lower 48 gonna throw it on Ebay...The bus is in good shape and should be perfect after I get it down and have Michael KRaft go over it.....Gonna sell it, buy a dually Diesel pickup with a camper trailer to tour in until I can afford an already converted bus....Thanks for all your help! Will I ever get out of here? Will I make it to the lower 48??? | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Wow. You made me feel better about mine. The frustration can build quickly when you're not the type of person that desires to be a mechanic. I have a bad back, and no longer desire to crawl around in the dirt, chasing down air leaks or other mechanical problems.... but.... Who to take the thing to? Most truck garages hate to work on buses, and know little about them. Bus garages will charge you for breathing inside their shop.. and still don't know the nuances of every make and model... Selling what appears to you as a "money pit" now, to buy another "better" unit later, will only result in you paying your dues later.. All used buses need extensive repair. (Yeah I'll get flames).. If they didn't need work and could be trusted for long hauls without breaking down, the bus company would be draining the last ounce of profit from it. They know damned well, that the converted coach won't be used heavily and that most of the problems would be repaired happily by the hobbyist, who does not care about any "profit margin". No guilty feelings when you sell to a hobbyist! Listen Sean, my 8k bus will probably need about 8k worth of work before it's up to snuff. Air leaks, missing engine emergency stop flapper, wrong size injectors, stabilizer bushings, rear main seal leak, power steering leak, etc etc... But what can I buy for 16k that won't need work? At least I'll know what I don't have to worry about. Don't quit your original plans too quickly. If the rig's what you like driving (regardless of how fast uphill); if it's become part of you when you sit behind the wheel, I'd suggest hanging on to it. Get it into a bus garage and have it gone over. Truck garages are no place to bring a bus.... Unless it's only for the engine work... And even then, why bring it to a mechanic that isn't going to like working on it? Cheers man. You've being initiated and hazed... You ain't gonna' wimp out on us, are you? | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Hey guy... John's absolutely right. Every single bus needs work... Hey, I'm the nutjob with the 60 footer that brought it 1300 miles before I'd even seen it in person, and ended up stranded on the side of the road north of Dallas because a damn WATER LEVEL SENSOR went bad and caused the *DUMB* computer to shut me down, even though there wasn't REALLY a problem to cause a shutdown... The transit companies sell these things because the profit potential decreases with the age of the machine. Eventually, MAJOR repairs WILL happen. Either the engine goes out, the compressor blows up, airbags start busting, tires need replacing... it all costs the transit company money... Money they'd rather spend on a NEW machine with a WARRANTY. From what I've seen, 300k to 350k miles seems to be the sell point for a transit company... Remember, these machines are used in SHORT runs with a LOT of idle time. I'm speaking only of transit buses, of course... Highway coaches get a lot more miles before they are ready to burn the bus off the fleet. But... point is... Every bus you'll be able to buy, unless you buy it direct from the manufacturer right off the floor is GOING to require repairs... The real question is, are you willing to make them? On your engine idle problem... Keep in mind, I really don't know anything more about these machines than you do... but... To shut the engine down, don't you just have to pull the plug on the skinner valve? It's just something I remember reading about on the non-computerized diesels... Something about how the skinner valve, if it loses power, it closes the fuel rack and shuts off the fuel flow? If you get a runaway... you'll get back to a completely trashed engine. Diesel engines require only two things to run... fuel, and air. If it receives a runaway of fuel, it will not stop. A friend of mine was over here working in a shop that worked on trucks... the semi variety. The engine ended up with an oil leak somewhere, so it self-digested with a runaway. The tech working on the engine at the time didn't know what to do, and ran into a panic because this very expensive machine, which HE was personally responsible for, was about to blow itself to pieces... So, what's he do? Puts his hand over the intake... a gas engine will immediately shut down... but not a diesel. There's too much torque, too much vacuum... He lost the skin off his hand. Wasn't pretty from what he told me about the incident. I don't know what ultimately happened to the guy... but the engine trashed itself anyway. Be careful. Just pull the plug on the skinner valve.... The valve is also supposed to close if it loses air pressure I think... So, if you have an air leak that bad, perhaps it'll shut down anyway. As I said... I'm more of a novice than anyone else on this board.... and I have an engine that's run off a DDEC-II, so I don't get the fun and joy of a completely mechanically controlled engine... I have to battle this damn computer every time I turn around. Hey, I had another stop incident the other day when I started it up just to work the system... Pulled the codes, and ended up with "low oil pressure", turned out it was just a corroded connector. fun. Good luck... don't give up. You'll wish you hadn't down the road with a DIFFERENT bus with completely different issues... Possibly even more expensive issues than you have now. Cheers! -Mac | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
To add.... I found that the air throttle assembly will not shut the engine down if I don't have enough air built up. Starting the bus when the air's all run out results in having it run until there's enough air to shut it down. And since my engine does not have an intake with an emergency flapper assembly, there's no other simple and quick way to shut it down. | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Michael Kraft explained how to shut it down and I went up there and figured it out in 2 seconds...Alaska Truck is coming out to me to look at the bus. I suspect it's the compressor. DAMN...My buddy got in his bus NO problems...His and mine were twins sitting next to each other...He picked the correct bus. The bus is up on a mountain and it snowed overnight..Almost couldn't get my crappy 2wd blazer up the hill! I suspect they will have to do whatever work needs to be done, on the spot or maybe they can air up the bus externally so we can move it. The Saga continues! At this point I told Laura to fly back up here because i'm not leaving state until I find someone to go over the coach with a fine tooth comb. John and Mac..I figured the bus would need work but for some reason I thought it would need like $5K worth of work only...Shoot, the ordeal with the rear end, not having anyone qualified to work on it up here, finally getting it back weeks after I was supposed to leave thus leaving me no time to trouble shoot things has taken it's toll on me. I don't want to drive it through the wilderness of Canada 2500 miles unless I feel secure that someone has gone over this thing with a fine tooth comb..I hope I can find that person, but either way i'm not going to drive out of here for another month..The weather will be a lot nicer and should there be a problem, it will be easier to deal with...We will fly out of Anchorage on the 6th to Kona Hawaii for 2 weeks to decompress, come back hopefully to a fixed bus and hit the road. | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Hey, I was wrong about something. The skinner valve... it requires air pressure to shut off the fuel flow... That's probably why it won't shut down. Not enough pressure to pop the valve down. Sigh... damn, I thought I might've had something for ya. heh. Oh well. Yea, you can use a regular air compressor to tie up to your system if you have an external hookup... usually by the RUN switch in the back end by the engine, you'll have a male air hose hookup you can use if I'm not mistaken. Just make sure you don't pump more air than you normally would have in your system... I've heard it causes problems with your brakes not being able to release properly... Also, the rear end problem wasn't your fault. It was the tow truck operator that caused that problem for you. He should've known to remove the axles to prevent damage, and if he wasn't sure, he should've called it in to find out what to do. Thus the reason you're suing them, right? Don't get discouraged. Look at it this way... You've got too much invested now to just tuck your tail and run! Everyone has their bad days and good days... If they didn't, this board wouldn't have any messages! -Mac | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Not really, Mac.. Even if there's nothing wrong with your bus or your conversion, there'll be a hundred engin-ears on a thousand threads, telling you why there will be. (Ahhh- HAR HAR) | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
No, no... I was saying that if nobody had a bad day, there wouldn't be any place for a BBS like this. But, here we are... so everyone has a bad day (or week, month, YEAR or MORE)... Personally... I love my bus. Regardless of the fact I just got her and ran into a major hurdle on the way down here... Well, not really major, but when you've never worked on these things before, and it's your VIRGIN experience... it SEEMS major! Anyway... I'll shut my trap now. I'm not sure what my point was anymore... :p Cheers! -Mac | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Mac- You did what we all fear doing. You're kind of an idol... You took the giant leap and threw fear aside and sought your dream. We all have our bad days with these old, beaten rigs, and there are easier ways out. We all know that. Trouble is, we're all masochistic and seek pain and suffering. I guess it doesn't make us "special", but we just all ride in the "special" bus just the same. Welcome aboard? (hee hee) | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
OMG! You've got to be kidding me! One of the preprogrammed messages on my display is "SPECIAL"!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Next time I start her up, I'll find it again and take a picture of it... It's absolutely hillarious. The "Useful" messages I've found so far: NOT IN SERVICE STUDENT DRIVER / NOT IN SERVICE SPECIAL EXPRESS There's others, but I'm not really interested much in what's already there... I want to reprogram it with my own messages... but looks like I'm going to have to do some binary coding to get them. I'm just not ready to start that kind of project right now. Ah well... I'll take a pic of the SPECIAL message when I get a chance... It's just funny you mention it. And... How am I an idol? I just took the leap of faith and (for once in my life) I didn't end up a splat on the rocks below! But I guess I am one of the VERY FEW that have taken the risk of getting a 60 footer though, huh? I've been doing some research into Louisiana law... I'll post my findings on that soon too. It's interesting reading. Cheers! -Mac | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
They all have a "special" title. It's for when it ain't a charter and it ain't a normal line run... it might be an additional bus that's covering back-up for a line run, or a special service run (airport, evacuation, etc..). Not "for hire", but assigned for a specific use. (sorry to being serious) I always felt "special" driving with the sign saying I was "special". And I always appreciated the cookies and milk given as a tip. | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Here the update: Got the mechanic from Alaska Truck to come out, cool guy, been dealing with him for a while. Figured out really quick that is was indeed my compressor..He said at least we're replacing it all now and not on the road..I said, yea that's a good thing...Found another air leak in front, crimped it off...Went and rented a Gas powered compressor, put it in bus, ran hose out the side door to the rear external air socket. Fired it up, Aired the bus up and we drove it into the shop in Anchorage..I told him to go over the air system with a fine tooth comb, see if he can get the compressor....So that's where I stand...Still in Alaska! | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
John... Yea, I figured as much... but it just struck me funny. ---- Sean... Better to be at the shop than on a road in the middle of nowhere with this kind of issue... but... at least if you end up replacing the compressor, you won't have to worry about it again for a long time. What exactly went wrong with it? Rings? Seals? Something else? Curious. -Mac | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
MAc...What went wrong with the compressor? I don't know yet..It stopped blowing...As far as the other air problems I had, it was the seals in the rear brakes and 3 air bags up front...This bus was sitting too long. Plain and simple...But now I have a new governer and will get a new compressor, 3 new air bags, 2 new tires on rear passenger side, new fuel lines, new fuel pump, completely rebuilt differential, new rear brakes, all new fluids, filters, various new air lines and hoses...I may have forgotten something but DAMN this thing should be ready to go!! The engine and tranny are stong..What else can go wrong??..Oh i'm getting the front tires balanced as well... | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Rule number 1: Never ask "What else can go wrong". Rule number 2: Never say "At last, everything's fixed". Rule number 3: Always carry a Cell Phone and Cab fare. | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Sean... why ya sellin' your bus?  She looks purdy. If she's running and moving now... there's really no reason to give up! Especially with so much invested now. I'm just disappointed to see someone give up on their bus. Take care, and good luck in your travels. -Mac | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Don't have the time to work on it and putting so much $$ into it so quickly has soured me of it all at this point in my life. I'll get another one at some point down the road if Diesel fuel doesn't end up getting so expensive that the travelling lifestyle is not feasable in the future. I'm only 34 so I have time. She will be perfect for someone who wants a 35 footer to convert. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Insure the hell out of it? I'm sure you'll run into a lightening storm at some lonely, hard to reach place on your trip down... Man, it's amazing how lightening can strike a parked vehicle the way it can! | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
LOLOLOLOL......That was funny man! | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Well... I know with projects that I tear into... if it ends up being a bigger job than I anticipated, I get burned out on it and just get disgusted. But... I know if I just put it down and come back to it in a week or two... maybe a few months down the road... It's new again and it's fun again... Maybe you just need to park it for a couple of months and take a break? Things look differently if you forget about it for a little while... Just a thought. -Mac | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
and sometimes...... a lifetime is just not long enough... I'd hang on longer, Sean. Maybe you'll feel better about it after you get it towed back home..... (bwaaahahaha... sorry...) Naww, really. If it runs great going back, you'd be better off sticking to that original dream. If not... Sell it to Mac. Maybe the Saudis will take it back... | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
:: rolls eyes :: That's so typical of you, John. ;) -Mac | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Well.... Just figgered that since you're gonna' be right next door to the Saudis... mbbe you can drive it over... make a few Riyal.. Leave quick, tho.... they have a nasty "lemon law". | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Damn John...Don't jinx me! Ever drive the Alaska Hwy when it's still winter conditions? Obviously I'm nuts but I have no choice so lets not even utter any reference to me breaking down. As far as the bus goes, It's gone. I don't have the time or really the $$ anymore to mess around with a project like this. My circumstances have changed a bit anyway and it seems I'll be on the road a great deal. A Diesel pickup will suffice. John, I didn't get your Saudi comments but I will say I'm certainly NOT ever going to the middle east again. Their culture is very different then ours and it's not to my liking. Anyway, later on. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Yeah. Chop-chop square. http://www.google.com/search?q=saudi+guillotine+square&num=30&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=o ff&c2coff=1 "Steal the bread; lose the head" It sure beats paying taxes to pay for incarceration! HEY...... HEADS UP~ | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
Perhaps they do... but the problem is, poor Sean has fixed the major things that I'd have been worried about in the first place! The air compressor on my bus is even bigger than the damn air conditioner compressor... and believe me... the A/C compressor on mine is *HUGE*. But then, I have nothing else to really compare with since this is (in all honesty) the very first engine bay I've ever had the (dis?)pleasure of seeing and studying up close... But the stuff under my "hood" is as monster as the damn bus itself! The air compressor on mine is something I worried about when I picked it up... I knew that if it failed, I was done. I had enough money for fuel and food to get home on.. that was it. A penny more and she was to be abondoned on the roadside wherever I broke down. But... on the flip side of that coin... I'm now quite confident with my beauty. In fact, I'm soon to take her out on another trip. Estimated distance is 600 miles! I had to get her legal... so why not! Cheers! -Mac | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
My bus is mechanically sound now!..After over $10K that I had to put into it!! I'll take a loss but someone will get getting a hellova deal! Ya know, I just did all the numbers and If I had just left the bus, and lost my initial $5K investment I would probably come out even with what I'm going end up losing on this deal in the end. Even if I get the $5000 back from the tow company, which I do expect to. I could have just left it at Alaska truck, Still sued the tow company for screwing up the rear end, left Alaska, not incured all the extra Travel expenses for Laura, the extra Month of Hotel fees for me, and could have taken the $10K I put into it and bought a older Diesel pickup and travel trailer. Had I been thinking clearly a month ago, thats what I would have done. Now if I'm luckly I'll end up about the same and could end up actually worse off. DAMNED HINDSIGHT! | ||
| chance Rating: N/A |
Not to rain on your parade, but you should expect to take a bath on this if you do sell it, even if you get the $5K from the tow company. Your bus is not worth the $10K you would need just to break even without counting the extra hotel and airfare costs. You'll be lucky if you can get the original $5K out of it. | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Chance...If someone doesn't want it for 5 grand I'll burn it and toast Marshmellows over it...I refuse to believe a coach which just had $10K put into it isn't even worth 5 thousand bucks..... So an MC5C is such a non-in-demand bus that you can't even sell one such as mine for $5K? I'll take $7K for it and lose over $5K on this deal..That's fine...NICE lesson learned and for that, a person gets a coach READY TO CONVERT. If you can find one in better mechanical condition for that, buy itl | ||
| Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg)
Rating: N/A |
Furthermore, I'll part the thing out...In fact, I'll talk to Michael Kraft about that when i'm down there. Split the cash with him....Anyone need a brand new rear end? Ask Rayhound how much they cost..I just rebuild the 3rd member and it was $3500...How Much is my automatic Allison Trans worth? What about the Engine with low miles on it? how about Air Conditioning system, brand new Air compressor??? Some knowledgable people have told me some people on these boards want a perfect bus for $15000 and it's not realistic in a coach that cost $400,000...Good luck. All I can do is laugh. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
The MC5 is one helluva nice 35' coach. No tag axle and plenty of bay room. You won't have any trouble selling it. Trouble is....... you won't be able to find another bus in that good condition for that little. Keep the thing; convert it; enjoy it. |