| Author | Message | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A |
I went and sat on my sofa in the bus and looked at light and ac receptical placement. Will I be happy with all 12 volt lighting? and what are the best ones to get for maximum light? I heard of 12 volt screw in bulbs are these better than the 1157 type bulbs? I was thinking then I could use an inverter for my ac recepticals. Should I put the converter back in and use it? is there an auto switch that will take my inverter out of the loop or should I wire seperate 110 outlets that will be used on the inverter only? I could use duplex boxes and have 2 recepticals in each 1 orange for inverter and the other white for generator or shore power and put my ac's in that circuit. then I would just have to plug my apliances into the proper one for that aplication. Like I said I want to keep it simple so that I know how to fix or isolate problems myself. I'm going to add at least 2 more batteries to my bank also to make a total of 4. or am I thinking stupid? Prediction, TwoDogs reply "thinking stupid" | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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kinda right....I think you need a converter AND an inverter....but don't think you know enough about either one...not trying to insult you...you either need to learn...or get somebody that understands | ||
| Jon W. Rating: N/A |
If simple is a goal then a 12 volt lighting system supplemented with 120 volt outlets powered by a stand alone inverter, shore power or a generator is the simplest. It requires manual selection of the power source for the 120 volt circuits, but by having converters for charging and providing 12 volt power, and an inverter for 120 volt the systems are separate and simple. However to be user friendly a system such as on our current Liberty beats the simple system described above which was on the previous Liberty. The current coach requires no thinking or effort on our part. It has two inverters, two battery chargers, and the ability to sense when there is shore power or generator power. We don't worry about switching or even what source of power is available. It is all automatic, but is more complex than the previous coach. If I were to build or convert a coach I would opt for the system we now have because my wife doen't have to think about what switches she needs to operate just to make a cup of coffee while we are traveling, or if she can turn on a certain light. She never did differentiate between 12 volt lamps and 120 volt lamps. | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
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Both, learn and get help. You don't insult or offend me I think your dry sence of humor and frankness is comical.  is the seperate wiring of the inverter and converter a good idea. Electrical mumbo jumbo confuses the hell out of me.  I went to a sight with 12 volt lights man are they expencive. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Don't feel bad, Ron. There's so many variables to consider and so many different ways to configure things..... and so many "do it my way" opinions and schematics... Any "novice" (like me & you) can get their thinking sidetracked as far as what -we- really desire to use. I would not keep separate outlets for inverter and genset. What about a "shore power" outlet? You gonna' have three outlets? I'd run all my AC wires back to my central location for all the power hookups. Make separate circuits for the bus, allowing only two or three outlets per circuit per each breaker. To keep it -real- simple, if you equip the entire AC panel with a cable, you can just simply plug it into whatever supply (outlet) you want to use. The genset outlet, the inverter outlet, or the campground power. There wouldn't be any confusion to what's running what, that way. Wire the AC to DC converter to the panel. Now you'd have 12 volts regardless what power supply you're using. Most AC/dc converters do their own switching from AC supplied, to direct battery, eliminating the confusion of what's forking over the 12 volts and when... Doing it that simple will mean a trip out to the power bay to swap AC supply connections, but what the hell...... and eventually you could figure out how to do it with the more fancy and expensive stuff that the "big guys" are using. Me? I think I'll keep it as simple and cheap as possible. A pal has a real fancy motorhome.... fridge, heat, AC/dc etc all work with a "brain".. He doesn't have to worry about doing anything when he starts, or during, or stops a trip. His rig's in the shop again..... It seems it's in there more than it's out. Prolly got a mind of it's own, eh? Yeah..... KISS. 100% !! | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
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Since my bus was alreay converted when I bought it (I just gutted the complete interior) it has a junction box in the bay that has the shore power going out from it or you can plug the gen set into it. then went to the converter. so I would not need the 3 wiring setup you mentioned. The only thing about using the plug into the inverter method is I then have to remember not to try to turn on my ac units. John Jewitt live close to me and has came over a few time to help me or just hang out and I believe he knows electrical systems. | ||
| Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
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I currently have two A/C panels in my converted '06 sharing a 50A main. I'm planning on moving the breakers and wires around to have one of the panels service all items that can be run from say a cheapo 2000w inverter: Convenience outlets, microwave, etc. I'll then wire two 30A receptacles under the panel: one for genset/shore (transfer switch for that is in the bay with the genny) and one for the inverter output. An idiot-proof plug to feed the panel can be inserted into either one... so there's no way I could fry the inverter and no way I could run A/C loads from it. Seems kinda KISS to me. Here's some pics of the existing electrical on my bus. When I have $1500 to plunk down for a coach-wide inverter/charger/transfer switch, I'll do that. But this can get me through some trips this year. Just some ideas... BB | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
Captain Ron (" Will I be happy with all 12 volt lighting? ") I think you could be. I recently converted the lighting inside a 74 GMC motorhome and we used 12vdc florescent bulbs. They put out the light of 60watt bulbs and use 13 watt. http://mastercatalog04.westmarine.com/0683.asp (look toward the bottom of page) These bulbs work well with the bulkhead fixture on page 680 and the shade on the same page. More Flor lights on page 676 Dimmers on this page as well LED lights page 677 Some Hallway floor type led lits page 678 The Florescents are screw in type and are much more efficient that the 12v screw in types. If you are looking for indirect lighting, look at ThinLites model 773 and 774, long thin lamps, about 2 1/4 wide, 3/4 high and avialable in 20" and 36 to 48 inch lengths. They come in two strengths of lumin power. The lower is good for undercabinet or a casual lighting off the ceiling, might not care to read by it. The higher lumin will light up the room, literally. When we installed the indirect lighting, I did not want to chance not enough light so went with the higher lumins. I had also included the 12v florescents for reading lamps. The Indirect lamps are bright enough to read by and I tend to use just 2 of the florescents to watch tv. The Motorhome has bright lite colored walls so the light is plentiful. You will need 120vac for obvious home products. Even the propane friges use 120vac in the parks. Kitchen appliances, unless you bought the expensive 12v units, are 120vac. You shave with a razor, need to charge batteries for the camera or kids toys........ see what I mean? Good luck, any questions, lemme know cd - the engineer, Lionel Trains ---- Toot Toot (2 Dawgs, har har) | ||
| Doug Dickinson (Dougd470)
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Ron - I am building my coach now. I am making all the lighting 12V so that I can run it any time with or without the invertor running. I will have receipticles around the coach with a special plug (no boo-boos allowed) so I can hook up 12V items as needed (portable CD players that want a cigar lighter plug, etc). The lighting is a mix of LEDs and conventional lighting. I will use a 12V rope light for an indirect light in a valance, and LEDs for reading lights and some general lighting like a couple of dome lights. I plan on using a couple of small desk lamps with 12V bulbs in them. LEDs cost big bucks, but pay back in a couple of years in reduced replacement and reduced current consumption (I want to do some boondocking). I am using them first in reading lights and may expand later. I strongly advise to wire the coach for the heaver bulb type draw so if someone puts a conventional bulb in a socket intended for an LED, that there won't be an overload. I am also using 12V for heater and fridge ignition and/or blowers. My "critical " stuff like ham radios will operate off a regulated supply fed from the invertor. This is to make sure they are geting good clean power. The exception is one radio by the driver. I will have a 24V battery bank for the house and inverter. The 12V is derived by a Vanner equalizer on that battery stack. This lets me charge batts and run 120V off the main alternator (via invertor) for the coach (5KW worth of energy). I will also have a 6KW generator feeding through the invertor (SW4024) so I can get the boost ability and the "UPS" functionality from the SW4024). It's a lot of money, but I feel it is simpler overall, and well spent money compared to some other ideas I have seen on this board (We all pays our money and makes our choice!). Something I am researching now is using a Reliance switchover panel to be able to shed load between the 120V legs via selection switches for each circuit (with a fuse). This way I can move each circuit to shore power or via the invertor (for protection) as necessary to balance load to need. It also allows me to time average budget my power needs. This is the fancy stuff that I may choose to do, but my wife won't have to. I can giver her a menu and she can make most everything run. Now, all of this has the effect of giving me dual redundancy for 12V and 120V systems. That is something I want. My way Doug St Louis MC9 | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Cap'n Ron, I did just that... all 12 volt lighting with 120 as a suppliment only. No 120 volt lights anywhere. I'm VERY HAPPY with it. The system: Simple... Four T-105's charged by a 65 amp smart converter (that takes care of the batteries quite well) The converter is always plugged in whenever AC is present on the bus, either from shore or the genset. I also have a solenoid that ties the house batts to the bus engine battery so I can charger either or both from either the converter or the alternator at my choice. My all DC lighting consists of lots of 12 volt fixtures and a few 40 watt fluorescents with 12 volt ballasts (cheap and totally reliable from New England Solar http://www.newenglandsolar.com/catalog_pages/catalog85.htm They have a LOT of cool 12 volt stuff, very reasonably priced. So any time I hop on the bus, the lights work without any further thought than flipping a switch, seamlessly no matter what or where I'm plugged into, or not... I use my Onan genset for the toaster and microwave, and A/C's when I'm in the boonies, and I personally have zero use for an inverter at all, except I have a tiny little 100 watt sine wave inverter that powers one outlet only, for stuff like charging cell phones and laptops. But I cannot fathom any use for a larger inverter. My camping habits have never had me wishing for one. Plus the expense and hassle, I really don't get why people even consider them. But that's just me.... | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I have a converter ...and...am ticked to death with it ...EXCEPT...when I'm on the road...and want coffee the next morning....an inverter would be nice...200.00....just for coffee ???....just...don't get in front of me till I find a cafe.... | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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and...I have one of those 12 volt coffee makers...takes an hour to make 4 cups...by that time...I'm ready to kick somebodys ass.....uhhhh..kick the feces outa somebody | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
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If you choose an inverter with a good three stage charger you do not need a converter also. The DR2412 mentioned above will do the job mentioned by Jon W. above. The battery charger and switching system are built in to the DR series inverters. The built in three stage charger will make your batteries last longer. Wiring is simple. Run all 12 volt wiring from the batteries through a 12 volt fuse or breaker box. Ru the 12 volts as if the batteries were the only source of 12 volt power. Run two AC boxes, one the Air conditioners and other circuits that you do not want to run on the inverter. Run a heavy wire from a big circuit breaker in the main AC box to the inverter AC input. Run the Inverter AC output to the second AC box. All circuits run from this second box will be on shore or generator power if it exists. If there is no outside source of AC power the inverter will automaitically supply AC power to these circuits as needed, up to its power limit. You can turn off the breaker to any circuit you do not want to receive AC power from the inverter if you will be boon docking a long time. Simplified: Your 12 volt system is independent of AC power except for charging. Charging is automatic when you run the engine or plug in. You don't think about it unless something breaks. Your 115 volt system has a sub panel via an inverter. You just hook up input from the main panel to the inverter 115 volt input and hook up the inverter output to the sub panel which has several circuits and circuit breakers for the things can't do without. The inverter keeps the 115 volt power available automatiaclly until the batteries run low. Then it automatically shuts down and you manually either plug into shore power or run the generator. Then the Inverter automatically charges the battery bank. Or you can run the engine and the battery bank will charge from the engine alternator. The power for the circuits that are on the inverter runs through the inverter just like a fuse, in one end and out the other. It is just a black box that you splice into the line to the sub panel. You connect AC power only to the input side, never the output. | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Another Opinion. Ron on my 4905 my goal was not only simplicity (meaning the wife would never be confused or do something wrong) but practicality. In going thru the same decision process, it became apparent to me that 12v lighting was simply a mindset from commercial RV building. I surmised, since I have a 120/240 genset, an inverter/charger, what reason would I ever want a 12v light? I used ONLY 120v lighting, lots of the screw in flouresent bulbs, and was very pleased with it. Think about it, if you have battery power, then you got 120v, so why make another system to maintain? It worked very well, I loved it, and would do the next one that way if I needed to. Just because daddys RV had 12v or your old stick and staple did, that is no reason to have one in a bus unless you do not intend to have an inverter. I can see no situation that one would want an inverter/charger AND a converter. | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Mr. Fessenden is right about not using a converter. A converter is a poor quality battery charger that supplies a limited amount of poor quality DC. Your best source of DC is your batteries with a good quality charger. To answer your question on light bulbs. 12 volt light bulbs that look like a regular 120 volt bulb are a good choice for incandescent lighting. Since you can use regular house type fixtures you have an unlimited selection and the bulbs last almost forever. For a similar wattage, the large envelope dissipates heat much better than the small automotive bulbs. | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
I just will clear the picture here a bit about CONVERTERS. THere are 2 completely different types. The original converter was in the older RV's, and were plugged into 120vac and would convert down to 12vdc. There would be two circuits, one to feed the 12vdc rv circuits and the other would charge the batteries. THIS UNIT TENDED TO COOK THE BATTERIES OVER TIME, thus shortening the life of good quality batteries. THe other converter is fed 24vdc (other ranges available) and would convert to 12vdc for the 12vdc distribution to the coach. This unit is usually on all the time the coach is being used and won't have a battery charger. (I have not seen one yet). These two types have completely different uses but unfortunately have a similar name. cd | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
there ya' go crybaby...a hundred different 'views'...& it comes down to...you need to read & learn about the systems...what would suit YOUR needs...will tell you...inverter only ,4 car batteries won't last too long | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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Silly arguements about "converters"... INVERTERS that have three stage chargers are, as far as the battery charging is concerned, EXACTLY the same as a "smart" converter. Yes as Cory points out, there are two kinds of converters. But it's not quite what he stated from there... One kind of converter is, as Cory says, a simple 12 volt dumb charger that will power your 12 volt stuff fine, but likely cook batteries in the process, and definitely not take care of them. The other kind has nothing to do with 24 volts... instead it's the same EXACTLY as "kind #1" except that it has some smart electronics included that regulate, equalize, charge, and supply voltage to the batteries and bus as needed, just like what an expensive inverter with a 3 stage charger would do....except there's no inverter thus not the expense of an inverter. Here is an example, and actually the brand of converter I use: an Inteli-power PD9160 made by Progressive Dynamics http://www.progressivedyn.com/power_converters.html Now the trick here is that all the converters they make are dumb, stupid boxes that will only provide 12 volts and kill batteries UNLESS you buy their inexpensive "Charge Wizard" device and hook it to the converter... then it becomes a very smart box that will supply your 12 volt needs AND take good care of your batteries. The example above is just one of many companies that make reasonable products for this application. They work well. My set of T-105's is going on 5 years old now, and the prior owner abused them fairly heavily before I took ownership of them. (Yes, I bought them quite "used"...) With the Inteli-power box and the charge wizard, they have been and still are quite happy batteries, always ready to serve me when I need them, requiring very little maintainance on my part. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Quoting: >>by that time...I'm ready to kick somebodys ass.....uhhhh..kick the feces outa somebody<< And this is different from your normal state of being how exactly?! | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
not tooo different | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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On a more serious note: Samlex makes "intelligent AC powered chargers" that have two interesting features: they can drive three separate battery banks and individually manage the output to each (plus act as a battery isolater preventing cross-drains) and it can be switched between "two stage" and "three stage" charging. They come in 15, 30 and 45 amp flavors. 12v: http://www.donrowe.com/battery_charger/samlex_batterycharger_12v.html 24v: http://www.donrowe.com/battery_charger/samlex_batterycharger_24v.html I can see first that these are pricey for the power delivered (in amps). But these could be wired to charge the vehicle battery, genset battery and house battery (or house battery bank) which strikes me as potentially useful. Samlex also makes some interesting claims about two-stage charging being better in situations where the battery is also under drain, which is what I plan to do in using the house battery bank and a quality inverter as an isolator/protector from shore power or genset (for small but expensive electronic loads). http://www.donrowe.com/battery_charger/samlex_document.html Quoting: ----------- Battery Chargers : Which One’s For You? There are many kinds and capacities of battery chargers. However, there are three major types – One-stage, two-stage and three-stage chargers.The ordinary one-stage charger you buy from the local auto-parts store is inexpensive, but it charges slowly and cannot completely re-charge a battery to its rated capacity. There are no automatic voltage or current shifts during the charge cycle and without monitoring, overvoltage and water loss can cause premature battery failure. Samlex does not make nor recommend one-stage chargers because they easily damage the battery by warping its plates or boiling it dry, effectively destroying it. A two or three-stage charger is recommended because both adjust current and voltage according to the battery's requirements. The choice is between a two or three-stage charger, depending upon its use: If there are permanent or transient loads on the battery during charging, a two-stage charger has the advantage because its circuits cannot be “fooled” into pushing a higher “absorption" voltage than required for charging. Without loads during charging, the three-stage charger has the advantage because it provides a more complete recharge. A two-stage charger provides a constant current until the battery reaches its rated capacity and then switches to a “float” voltage. The current then reduces as necessary to maintain the battery at the float voltage. The charger can be connected to the battery indefinitely. A two-stage charger is recommended in most instances since it is the most versatile and can be permanently connected to attenuate the characteristic discharge of unused batteries. A load can be put on the battery or batteries without altering its ability to keep the battery at optimal charge. A three-stage charger is the most complete charger. It charges the battery at a constant current until the battery voltage reaches a slightly elevated level. The battery is maintained at this voltage while the charging current diminishes to a low value, and then the battery is switched to the float voltage where it can be maintained indefinitely. However, the charger cannot differentiate between a current going to a load on the battery, or being absorbed by the battery, so it can overcharge a battery supplying current to a load. A two-stage charger is preferred for “loaded” batteries and a three-stage for idle or “unloaded” batteries during recharging. Samlex chargers which offer 3 stage charging can be switched to 2 stage if required by simply Adjusting a dip switch. ----------- Jim again. When you think about how the smartchargers work on high-end inverters (Xantrex DR/SW/Prosine/etc) you realize that this *might* indeed be an issue - they generally switch all the wall plugs in the RV straight to shore or genset power whenever they sense one of those being available, and become just a switch and charger. The battery isn't under load at that point during the charge cycle unless the "extra startup power for heavy loads" feature kicks in momentarily. Ohhhkay...so how well do the Iota, Progressive Dynamics or other standalone multi-stage smartchargers handle this issue? Is Samlex full of it? Do these others such as the Iota detect that there's a load on the battery somehow and adjust input automatically (where you'd have to do the same manually on the Samlex by jumping between two and three stage charge modes)? | ||
| Don/TX
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Back to the origin of this thread, there are 12v AND 24v bulbs, with the standard screw in base readily available. I considered it and opted not to use them, figgered the wife would screw one of them into a 120 socket too often. I still say scrap all the lights except for 120v ones. While parked at a power pole you are "normal", when running or parked at Wal Mart you are inverting to 120. | ||
| Greg Roberts (Gregeagle20)
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I took an approach that will allow me to take advantage of the two scenarios in which I will use my bus: 1) boondocking with no power pole or genset running and use the LED 12V lights. 2) Generator running, engine running or connected to the grid and use the power hog 110VAC lighting. | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Gary: You will have to explain to me why you buy an expensive source of filtered DC out of a converter when you already have that in your batteries. You just need the good battery charger. Progressive has been around since the dawn of RVs making converters for trailers and motorhomes that have virtually no house battery capacity. With a normal house battery bank you have almost unlimited current available instead of buying a 30, 40 or 50 amp DC supply. I must be missing something on the use for a converter. The purpose of my post was to answer Ron's question if he should re-install his converter and so far nobody has said he should and why. | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
OOOOOH GARY, beg to differ.... (" The other kind has nothing to do with 24 volts... instead it's the same EXACTLY as "kind #1" except that it has some smart electronics included that regulate, equalize, charge, and supply voltage to the batteries and bus as needed ") I have the stated 2nd type converter. It is connected to the 24vdc batt bank, and it converts the dc down to 12vdc for the bus circuits. There is NO charger on this unit and no way to connect to power to charge anything. It does not add power, it just takes and converts for coach use. I have tried the LEDs, in fact, I have them in a motorhome, but they barely make good light for night lights. The output of an LED is about as good as a INCINOLET poo poo burner. My first choice for 12vdc is florescent and last is incandescent. LEDs put out the wrong color lite, is too directed and not enough of it. I have experimented quite a bit with these things and as nite lites they are great or when you are driving down the road to keep the coach floor lit, fabulous, and they use very little power. In fact, your battery can be near dead and the LED will still light where a normal bulb will dim or go out. so the LED is a lousy indicator for if your batt is in trouble. As far as 12v lights are concerned, one way or the other, you will need battery powered lights for when the coach is not hooked up to land power or in storage and you need to get aboard. Its ok to have some 120vac lights, but it seems to be easier to just use some good efficient 12vdc lighting and cut out the middle man. cd | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Gary: I must be missing something on the need for a converter. I see it as an expensive box supplying filtered DC in Limited amount (30, 40, or 50 amps) when you have unlimited high quality DC from your batteries. Progressive Dynamics has been around since the dawn of RV's when they made converters that were just a transformer with a half wave rectifier. Their market was trailers (and motorhomes) that had almost no house battery capacity, but when you have a large battery bank, what is the purpose of the converter? If you are only using it as a battery charger, you spend a lot of money for a fancy fuse box. Nobody has told Ron he should re-install his converter and why. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I said it twice....indirectly | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
"Nobody has told Ron he should re-install his converter and why." I did. Because it converts 110 to 12 nicely and cleanly and he already has it. Some of us aren't hell-bent on spending our cash. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Stan, you're missing something. Some of these buses have 24v battery banks. Problem: scoring 24v DC "stuff" is a royal pain at best and impossible in many cases - lighting, kitchen accessories, you name it. Scoring 12v DC accessories is pretty easy as they're made for standard car/van/stick'n'staple (small motorhome) use. In those cases, feeding 12v accessories from the 24v battery bank using a converter of that type (aka "equalizer") makes sense. As it appears I'll be buying a rig with a 12v house battery bank, I can skip that step. | ||
| LABryan Rating: N/A |
Ron, even if you rarely boondock, you will probably appreciate having most of your lighting of the 12 volt flourescent and/or LED type described above for the times you do. If you must have better 12v light for reading, etc, you can get some fairly cheap halogen fixtures at Ikea and clip off the transformer, but these are power hogs. My lights are all 12v but I carry three of those $4.99 clip on spotlights from Target equiped with compact flourescent bulbs. If I need more light I just plug them in as needed and run off inverter or power pole. Very versitile. Point up and you get a nice reflected glow off the ceiling. Point down and you have great reading light. Low power consumption and cheap, too. What more could you want? | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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Ron, give me a call if you need more help, and BTW, I want the mirror you tore off in the trees if you are not going to repair the base. ...JJ | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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The deal with the progressive converter, and those like it is that when you're plugged in to AC, the converter will supply all of the house 12 volt needs, even though it's still got the batteries hanging onto it. When you're in the boonies, the batteries supply the power. It's NOT about being an "expensive source of filtered DC" in the slightest. Picture it this way... in a car you have a battery and an alternator. when you're parked on a hill at night smooching with your girl, the battery takes care of running the stereo and what few lights you're silly enough to leave on. When you're finished and driving away, the alternator takes over, both recharging the battery and operating the headlights, stereo, etc. Nothing you have to mess with, switch over, etc. An ideal system. Now, in your mind, build that same system on your bus, but hook an AC motor to power the alternator and put both inside a black box. Plug the motor into shore when you're home and leave it unplugged when you're in the boonies. Same basic system as a car has, seamless, keeps everything happy, but it's AC powered instead of engine driven. Now, replace that dumb idea of a black box with a good "smart" converter, and you have the same system without the mechanical nightmare of an AC motor and alternator. In fact you have a better system because the smart converters treat batteries a lot better than most simple alternators would, and at the same time carry all of the load that you give it by turning on lights etc. when you're hooked to shore power. Got it? The system is simple, seamless, no brainer, and it works VERY well, at least for me.... Corey, in your post where you said "THere are 2 completely different types.", you are comparing apples and oranges.... what you're talking about is a voltage dropping device, which is a totally different world than the "converters" we're talking about here. The two different "types" of converters that we're talking about in this thread is "smart ones" and "dumb ones", not having anything to do with what their input voltage may be... ...and Stan, sure the batteries supply nice groovy DC, but what this discussion is about is HOW do you recharge them after they've shot their wad... THAT's what the converter is for, and smart ones do it better.... | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
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Jim in Cal, the issue of properly charging a battery bank that may be loaded or unloaded is dealt with in Heart's case by the use of a Link battery monitor. This reports the rate and state of charge and also controls the charger function by reading the current entering or leaving the battery, regardless of the loading by the 12 volt system. Until I read your post above, I didn't know there was any way to overcome the charging problem without an external shunt to separate the charging of the battery and the loads in the RV. It looks as the two stage charger might work pretty well. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
Well then that makes 3 different kinds of converters. one of which I have not used or seen, yet! Since I miss-represented my explanation, I think I'll go over to the table, and have another Pepsi. good luck cd | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Tom: I haven't done it yet, but I'm wondering whether or not the Samlex standalone charger can be manually switched from two-stage to three by running wires off the location where a jumper block might go. There should be a datasheet on the Samlex site that shows what's going on. It would be kinda cheesy to have to manually switch to two-stage once you start your loads, but...it would at least work. What I really like about the Samlex is that it can *independently* charge three different banks (either two-stage intelligent charging or three). What everybody else is doing is running external isolators (diodes or something more modern with the same function) off the single charger or charger/inverter output. OR they don't charge the starter battery with AC at all, they just use the alternator for that when running and hope it starts months later or something. Ditto the genset battery if any. This thing solves THAT issue in a tearing hurry, don't it? Haven't seen that feature on anything else. I assume that all the batteries involved have to be all the same type (flooded, gel, AGM) as the Samlex smartcharger has the usual settings for each. If those can be set for EACH of the three outputs, that would be way cool but for less than $300 I'd bet it ain't quite that cool . No biggie for me as I'll be starting with all-flooded (batteries are recent and good quality and condition 8Ds) and will probably just stick with that... | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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Gawd we all need to switch over to Gerbil-driven generators and not have to deal with all the complexities of batteries!! | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Methane power, and then we all end up needing to eat at Taco Bell every day . | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
So...... uhhhhhh...... Ron? RON? Was yer question fully answered as all usually are? (har har) Most of us have had an rv long enough; have used them long enough; in enough various conditions, and on enough trips..... to know that our simple rv type "converter" treated us and our batteries quite well. It supplied 12 volts whenever the genset was running (or we had 110 power), and charged the meager 12 volt batteries for us at the same time. Without any 110 supplied, the simple, dumb unit managed to know enough to send the battery's 12v right along to us anyway. If I had one handy, I'd use it. I'd buy a cheap inverter for the not too sensitive stuff and use a better sine model for the "special" stuff. Cheap, easy and foolproof. And.. did I say cheap? If I could afford the 4024, I'd love to have it. It appears to do everything... of course, when it fails... you also lose everything. Hummmmm...... | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Gary: I agree with you 100%. You need a good battery charger. What is usually referred to as a RV converter is a lot more box than a battery charger. Jim: Not many converters use 24 volt components in the house. The two common methods are to use a Vanner equalizer for the small loads with a 24 volt inverter on a 24 volt battery bank or to use a 12 volt battery bank with a second alternator on the engine. There are pros and cons for each method. | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
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I've had RVs with convertors for close to twenty years. I put a Magnetek converter in my bus. It automatically switches over from the batteries whenever I'm connected to shore power. I've never had any problems. That's my experience. I'd put the convertor back in. DaveD |