| Author | Message | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A |
Well I have a little power now in the bus , off the generator and not with an extention cord either. John Jewitt Helped me(actualy I helped him) all weekend on the bus wiring it. We put in service panel and 2 (need one more) Breaker boxes to plug a chord from the main box into acording to which power sorce I'm running from, shore, generator or inverter. After looking at prices of 12 volt lighting I decided on 110 volt. so every thing is 110, seems more logical and simple. since I was going to use an inverter any way. It's pretty much all roughed in with space for a few more options later. I'm starting to get a new wave of enthusiasm the more things get done. Thanks JJ. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Now, you're scaring us.. | ||
| Bill 340 Rating: N/A |
Ron, Dont forget to wet your finger before inserting it it the light socket,to test to see if there is any voltage. It makes for a quicker response, AND JJ loves to eat at MELS DINER there in FT Meyers, Bill 340 | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I see you didn't do any reading & studying before you lept....I forsee more whineing...  | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
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12v lightning is more expensive up front... but after doing a lot of reading and hearing stories from others... it seems to be the way to go in the long run. 12v lights don't seem to burn out as often, there's less risk of fire, less risk of getting electrocuted and it's just cleaner and more power efficient (and in a 60 foot rig like mine, that's a definite plus). I'll go with 12v when I finally get to the point of doing something more than going out and looking at the beautiful machine she is. That'll be a while though apparently. :/ Ah well. Good luck with yours! I look forward to reading more!! Cheers! -Mac | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
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Two Dogs, I had an electician helping me and we talked about different senarios. weighed cost, time I have to get things done, money, and other projects I have to do in time aloted. Unlike most of you on the board I use my bus full time and need to get things done. I talked to other people who have done this and they are happy. I now have 3 sources of power and 1 common final usage. seems very practical and smart to me. All the wiring was done to code and safety was a big facter in doing everything right. I can always add more batteries for the inverter and I can still buy 12 volt lighting that works off of 110 allthough it is very expensive. Bill, I prefer using my toungue for testing I fed JJ every day but I guess I should take him to Mel's when were done and give him carte blanch. | ||
| Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
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The 12v DC vs 110v AC debate will rage as long as converters are converting. For folks that have the budget to have a set-and-forget inverter/charger, you'll definitely have more lighting options in the 110v AC realm, because you can use just about any residential lighting. In going with AC lighting, you lose some efficiency in the inversion, and probably more watts get lost to bulbs being designed for 110v don't that have to be as inherently frugal w/ the wattage in a typical home vs. the RV/boat world. But some inefficiency might be worth it for the vast selection AC affords. In bulb choice, I'd shy away from anything incandescent (wasteful) and all halogens (HOT). So, we're left with fluorescents and LEDs, if you ignore some of the “bleeding edge” technologies (xenon, krypton, chroma, etc.) for now. Some of the screw-in fluor. replacement bulbs for medium base bulbs can be quite affordable and frugal with the watts. A cheapo lamp base and a $3 screw-in medium base fluor. makes for a bright, cool, watt and $-thrifty lighting. If it were me, I might keep a few DC lights on the coach or house side for the time that the inverter poops out at Oh Dark Thirty. Just some thoughts… BB | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
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I plan on using 12 volt lights in my bay areas. the motor home ones that came out of the original conversion you know the ones that screw to cieiling or wall and have the slide switch and melted lense cover. I will run a couple wires up above for emergancy use. but remember I have a generator also. | ||
| gillig-dan Rating: N/A |
The only disadvantage I can see with 110VAC is incandecent bulbs would not last very long in a moving bus. 12V bulbs have a much thicker filement and can handle the shock of a moving vehicle better. It may be worth purchasing the rough duty lamps, like the ones for 'trouble lights'. Gillig-Dan | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
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One advantage of 12V or 24V lighting is it is below the threshold for shock hazard. In an accident situation this might be important. DaveD | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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What do you mean by bus vibration burning out lights? Ron's 4905 is exactly like mine and my bus rides better than most back yards in LA! I have 110VAC bulbs that are almost 3 years old. Brian, 12 VDC bulbs burn hotter than 110VAC because the larger glass envelope dissipates heat better. DC is more fire prone than AC because it arcs worse. You can sustain an arc with DC voltage at no load, while AC will not sustain an arc unless a heavy amp load is involved. 12 DC creates a much larger arc than 110VAC in a dead-short situation. Try it! Cheers...JJ | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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If 12 VDC was an arc hazard, then 12 volt devices would fall under the guidance of UL. As I recall, nothing under 50 volts has to be listed by UL. I do not believe it is possible to sustain an arc at this low voltage. Richard BTW, if you like to read in bed, your reading lights should be 12 volts so that you do not have to run your inverter all night. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
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Not to mention what happens if you can't use your inverter because of any number things. We believe that we are far better off choosing enough 12 volt equipment that we won't be too pressed if the inverter goes down. That way, we can take enough time to get a fairly economical repair compared to just buying whatever might be available because we can't do without the 110 power. 110 equipment often is not built with power economy in mind; just make some careful comparisons. That's just the way we look at it. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
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Has anyone use the 12 vdc electric blanket on the market? Chuck Newman Oroville, CA | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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Richard B. the SAE and ASTM provide Standards and Testing for low voltage DC equipment, and NOTHING ever HAS to be UL "Approved" or "Listed." Submission of items for UL "Approval" is strictly voluntary, and manufacturers lie, cheat, cajole and even occasionally produce quality equipment in and effor to get UL "Approval", which signifies a certain minimum quality and safety, whereas UL "Listed" is just that. "Listed" as an "approved-type" and that designation carries no significant guarantee of quality or safety. Give me a fresh 8D and I can sustain a 1/4 " arc for several hours, then add about 200 amps of load and it can grow to around 3/4". Back when TD was a kid, frequent fires due to DC arcing were part of the reason Tesla lost out to Edison.(Along with a little skullduggery on TAE's part) ...JJ | ||
| Don/TX
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My Miller MIG welder sustained an arc very damned well for hours at a time, 32 volts as I recall. The wife and I used the 12v elec blanket in the Kenworth. Since I was paying for fuel and repairs, we did not run the engine all night. We just loved it, you sleep ON them instead of under them, so at way below freezing a light cover will suffice. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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JJ, I do not think I mentioned UL approval since UL never approves anything. They only list it as being safe for use in the home or work place. I know, I was severly chided once by UL for indicating in an ad that the item I was offering for sale was UL approved. LOL. I am not familiar with SAE or ASTM guidelines. The NFPA is what regulates the guidelines for home and workplace safety, I believe. I really do not know or even understand why UL does not list anything under 50 volts, but I do know that in the equipment I manufactured, anything under 50 VDC did not require inspection of any kind. Richard | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
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The reasoning for not listing products operating at less than 50V relates to the shock hazard. However products that are mains connected to 120V ac or 240V ac or higher are listed and the applicable standards place requirements on the type of electrical isolation they provide. Type testing is a long accepted and reliable way of determining compliance of a product with applicable standards. Certification bodies have, as part of the conditions for product approval, enforceable agreements with their clients which require them to only apply the certification or listing mark to products which are identical to those type tested. The certification bodies have follow-up agreements in place and conduct various types of surveillance activities, including factory inspections, and finished goods inspections. DaveD | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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Thanks for the info David. Follow on and unannounced factory inspections was some of the additional costs involved in manufacturing to UL. I would guess that since most of the marine products do not fall under the NFPA/UL requirements, then the manufacturers simple do not apply the label, even if the product meets or exceeds UL requirements. Richard | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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I'm with you Richard, it sounds as though Dave has a better handle on this than I do. I've had no dealings with UL for years, so things may be drastically different now. ...JJ |