| Author | Message | ||
| Nick Morris (Nick3751)
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I had a thought about setting up a pretty fool proof system to keep folks out of your bus. The only thing is I don't know if it's going to toast my electronics. I figure if a fella took a small electric fence charger and hooked it to the body and ran the ground through the body (insulated) and to a ground rod that would separate the buses DC and the chargers AC. Then you'd have to have some way to turn it on and off with out touching the bus and you'd have it. It'd take a pretty tough hombre to hold to the thing long enough to open a fuel tank to put sand in or mess with the engine etc. Plus it's pretty much harmless I don't think the law could say any more to that than if you put a chain link fence with barbed wire around the top. Of course it'd take a time or two forgeting to turn it off and getting bit to get used to it. What to ya'll think? | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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Make sure you have lots of cash for litigation fees, or a brother-in-law that is a good attorney. It's been done on a house trailer (in Dayton,OH), with disastrous results legally/financially. It made the newspapers and TV in a big way at the time. Use caution, and call and attorney for advice first. If you decide to proceed, then get either The Weed Burner, or The BullDozer. Their names say it all. G'Luck ...JJ | ||
| Randall Hays (Bulldogie)
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Now that's an Idea. You could go to a salvage yard and get a key open system to turn it on and off but then you would get the same shock if you forgot hehehe. Also I would use one of the pulse systems so that you don't kill somebody, it will shock the &%$#@ out of them, turn them loose and give them time to think about if they really want to keep messing with your bus. | ||
| Randall Hays (Bulldogie)
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PS: Dont forget if somebody does call the cops to claim "Gee I must have a short in my electric system and then calmly grab the bus and get a shock and say yep I must have" Then hit the button and act like your getting shocked and go into the bus and flip all the breakers on the bus and then claim that you stoped it and you will have to fix that right away. | ||
| Nick Morris (Nick3751)
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Just hang one of those electric fence signs on all four sides of it that should stop most litigation from getting very far. Will it leave the rest of the electronics alone though? | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
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Here's my lawyer: www.gmalaw.ca Please check with him before you go ahead with this security plan, ok? And if you do go ahead with it, please remember that this web site and myself recommend not to. Now, please excuse me while I go transfer my house into my wife's name. Good luck. Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
I'm afraid IAN has hit the answer on the nose. These days of high priced "Liars for hire" and the way they manipulate the court systems, you would be paying the theives for the rest of your life. Here is a hint: If you are being threatened by some fool and try to get help from the local police, or if you are in another state, and a fool says he will come to you and do bodily harm, YOU CAN'T get help until he has BODILY HARMED YOU. Lots of good that does if you are DEAD! You can get hung in court if you shoot a robber in your house. If you cause him to become deceased, HE BETTER HAVE A KNIFE IN HIS HAND and appear to have been attacking you. To place a electric shock on a structure or vehicle is a hazard and that is the way the courts will look at it. The ROBBER will suddenly become a fuller brush man that "found" the door open and got shocked causing "great pain and permanent memory loss". You'd pay and you'd pay a lot. Make her has secure as you can, put an alarm on her, though in todays world, that does not attract much anymore, and keep things that you can replace easily on board. As I was told when inquiring about this, "NOTHING IS FOREVER, it is a replacable world". Perhaps you should think in those terms. cd | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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IIRC, a couple of years ago when this topic came up, someone mentioned installing a 150+ db alarm system INSIDE the coach. One of those things that was so loud and pitched at just the right point that it was EXTREMELY painful to remain inside. Might work for someone this time around. BTW, MCI has an option for all the exterior panels that open to have a key lock on them. Uses a Ford key. Should be in the parts book. According to my friends on the local PD, most theives are opportunists - they'll go for the easy mark. Time is on your side - whatever you can do to slow them down works to your advantage. FWIW, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Lin Rating: N/A |
Yes, there are lots of rapist rights people like the Prison Law Group, and there are none that will take your side. Aside from that, it is possible that some kids could touch your hot bus, and you would not want to be shocking them. As far as threats go, many states do have laws against it. However, they can be hard to prove. Anyway, remember that if someone were to threaten you, you should always report it in the strongest possible terms like, "He said 'I'm going to kill you', not 'I'm going to kill you if...'." The "if" mitigates the seriousness of the threat many places. If possible add that he pushed, or threw a rock at you so it could be considered an assault. If you shoot someone, you may need to put a weapon in his hand. You are always wrong if the person is shot in the back. If you find a burglar in the house, have him turn around before you fire. And, when asked about a threat or an attack, never act macho and say you were not afraid. Be very clear that you were terrified and considered your life in immenent danger. By the way, never make a statement to the police without the presence of a lawyer if there is any way you could become the subject of an investigation. Police officers know to do this themselves since their own departments and DA's can be known to turn on them if it is easier. It is a dangerous world even after the action is over. | ||
| Cliff (Floridacracker)
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I have one of those "Weed Choppers" around my pastures. Keeps the cows from putting any stress on the fence or wire. Forget it! The amount of isolation you would have to create on each entry as well as that whoever(shockee)was trying to get in would have to complete the circuit. On a dewey morning my unit 1800vac jumps right across the two inch insulators. I would get the 150db+ alarm horn. I have them in all my facilities and they will drop you too your knees. And besides, you want them to leave. Not get mad and beat the hell out of your coach for shocking them. Cliff | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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kinda along the same lines....have had mexicans stealing my trot lines....next year...maybe when they pull on the string...might pull the pin out of a grenade  just jokeing....leave I@NS house title alone | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
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In CA, Assault (240 P.C.) is defined as "An unlawful attempt, coupled with present ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another." Physical contact is not necessary in assault, and it's usually a misdemeanor crime against a person. Battery (242 P.C.) is defined as "Any willful and unlawful use of force of violence upon the person of another" This is usually also a misdemeanor against a person. So as you can see from these definitions, even the 150 db alarm could be cleverly argued in court by a tricky attorney as Battery. One would have to take into account the damage that can occur from high sound-level exposure (something that is easier to argue in court...) for information on this, just go to Google and type in "damaging sound levels" and see what comes up. The "shock" system would automatically qualify as Assault as you are threatening people who walk by your rig (even if they weren’t thinking of touching the rig) with a good tickle as >>>punishment<<< for touching your vehicle (you may also be convicted as a vigilante but that's a long shot). Your case would be easier made if you could prove that you took the "Reasonableness Doctrine" into account and built in limits on the use of force (used successfully by Police for decades...). For example: Police and private security typically say "I used sufficient and reasonable force to overcome his/her resistance." Lately the craze has been to use a holding or detaining force as opposed to a damaging/deadly force. If you build this into the alarm and can prove that the system worked as designed in court, you should be okay. For the high SPL alarm, try putting a sticker warning that there is an alarm on-board which features a high volume alarm (be vague about the actual levels as criminals may bring appropriate hearing protection to "work", i.e. say "Greater than 100db"). Use a stepped alarm. Lower db around 97db as a warning when someone bumps the rig (also your neighbors will thank you for preventing LOUD nuisance alarms by wind at 3:30 AM while you're out getting a beer and a steak.) Then set up a loud alarm when the criminal enters the vehicle but require two sensors to be tripped so that you don't drain your batteries because a glint of sun off your chrome flashed into an IR motion sensor. The bottom line is, if you want to get creative in this area, you can be as intricate as you were when putting the doodads in the living space when you did you conversion. But, you must remember that you have the responsibility to protect people who interface with your vehicle just as much as you did when you serviced your brakes. Cheers! Tim | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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What we need is a system that does a crazy-loud alarm, yeah, but also sends a pager signal wirelessly up to at least 10mi away to a pager you wear. In my case, I'd be on my bike and hauling butt back to my rig in seconds. Anybody know of such a thing? | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I have a brand new one in a box..but the RANGE is only one block... | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
Guys, I just don't get why this is such an issue. I use a Rottweiler. I put a warning sign on the exterior of the (locked) area. The Rotty decides what is "reasonable & necessary force". IF the Rotty decides to audibly alarm, it's about 79 DBa but it sounds louder. An added plus is that this system is completely portable & needs no batteries at all. The mere presense of this system prevents entry of unauthorized persons to my yard or bus. Jim-Bob | ||
| t gojenola
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I have a friend who had a rotty alarm in his Mercedes a few years ago. While the hippies were stealing the hood ornament the alarm trashed the interior. tg | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
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I like the idea of the bus shocker. I think I would use it if they made it past the doors and around the stuff like my tool box and power tools. To meany laws for the bad guys and nothing to help us. They get in and fry good! And I hope it hurts like hell too. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
You can do the same thing with any ignition coil. Just feed the hot high side to the body. Watering the area would help. Maybe open the grey/black tank valves and kill two cats with one rock? In Florida, the gestapo use Tasers on kids in school, so I don't see where it'd be a problem to use the equivalent on an actual criminal. And if an old lady got zapped when her wheelchair runs into your bus, they'll prolly give you an award.. Also in Florida, there is legislation underway that will allow you to shoot anyone that you deem is about to cause you grave harm. Yes, you can shoot first and not be charged with homicide. And yes, shooting the villain in the back appears to be perfectly acceptable in this new bill! http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/fl_new_law_legal_shoot_first.htm "Kiss my ass" "You trying to kill me with food poisoning?" *BLAM* "Case dismissed" I like it. I really do! | ||
| John tng Rating: N/A |
Uhmm.... I'm not an "Alex Jones"aficionado, nor have I heard of him before the previous post. I just grabbed a URL at random from Google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=florida+shoot+first+law Interesting reading, though... | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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been that way in Texas for years..AND.......in Ariz....you can walk around with a 45 strapped to your hip | ||
| Nick Morris (Nick3751)
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I figure it would work best with one of the units run off a solar pannel on the roof. Then all these guys who leave a fully fueled bus in a secure parking area won't come back to an empty fuel tank. More of a "while your gone" kinda thing. I've got Mister Kimber .45 for while I'm there. | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
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the bike market has an alarm that works with a pager system with a pretty good range. also a tracking system if it gets stolen. | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
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Jim in California, Try a Boomerang alarm. Upon entry, an alarm sounds inside the vehicle and your cellphone/pager/phone is notified by a live alarm monitor person - police automatically notified and know where your vehicle is by the alarm's built-in GPS (especially good if the bus is moved). Down side is there's a monthly monitoring fee. Related sidebar: My home is protected by ADT Security. I have motion, door open, and glass breaking sensors all over the place. Our cleaning person set it off once accidentally and we discovered the notification system worked great. Darned cleaning person... but that's another story! When the sales guy was at the house selling me the system, he said that the sticky signs on the house are usually enough to keep theives away from your place, so I asked him to leave a bunch of sticky signs and forget the alarm system. He said the alarm system was free... the sticky signs were $26. a month. So, all we need is someone who can make a whole bunch of "Bus protected and patrolled by Two Dogs Security Systems Nationwide, Inc." in the usual yellow/black colours. Takers? Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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TWO DOGS even has a bobcat....underground before they are cold | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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.............. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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I carry 3 pinshers with me. Apparently no one has figured out that they are Min-pins since I have never had an RV "molested" by anyone, anyplace in nearly 40 yrs. of travelling this entire country, Canada, and a good part of Mexico by RV. I have lost a couple of lawn chairs that I left out but my motorhome has never been bothered. I think that some here may be a bit to paranoid for their own good. As for the "security" systems that might render even the least amount of physical discomfort. Over my lifetime I have known a few "badguys" and it is my opinion that if your system didn't totally incapacitate them you could rest assured that your bus would be torched shortly thereafter or at least damaged to the point that you would like to have good comprehensive coverage. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
With either a touch sensor or a movement sensor, a nice touch would be a recorded message played over an outside speaker that says: "You are being filmed by hidden cameras that are uploading pictures to the Internet. Please step away." (then we can all sit here and watch your tires being stolen?) | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
JTNG: That's actually a pretty good idea...heck, the cameras are getting cheap enough to actually do it. My wife's suggestion was: "Forget the electric fence charger. Try a 220VAC power line, & just carry some thick rubber gloves & a shovel." 2D: She prefers a 9mm...the grip on a .45 is too big for her to use comfortably. | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
I like your wife! She got a sister? | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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To turn on/off alarms, and electric fences, HD, Northern Tool, Lowes's etc. have IR remote control 110VAC receptacles for about $12.00. Brands include Black and Decker, Simonds, and Laweer. With a relay or contactor plugged in it becomes a low voltage switching device too. Cheers...JJ | ||
| TomNPat
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Isn't it FUNNY that the whole jist here is that the criminals have rights, we don't. The majority here (All respondents as I read it) are in favor of being able to protect our property against criminal activity as we see fit. Isn't it SAD that we have allowed our right to do so be eroded? And isn't it SAD that we, as the majority, don't take steps to take back our rights from the criminals and their friends? Our county houses a prison for the worst of California's convicts. Yet, we are continually funding law suits in our county superior court to assure that they have the newest law books, cable tv, highest quality medical care, smiling guards, etc. Isn't it time we quit letting the bleeding hearts rule our society? 'Whiskey for my men and Beer for their horses'. TomNPat | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Commiefornia. You have my blessings. Take away guns and make the people dependent on government for protection. Make the people fear their government. What do you have left? That isn't what our forefathers and the Constitution they formatted, prescribed; It's what they sought to prevent. | ||
| Lin Rating: N/A |
Just a correction for Tomnpat. They do not have cable TV. The institutions generally have an antenna that is cabled into the cells. They will just get the local stations. They do not get the highest quality medical care, but they do get free medical care which most people do not. For most of them, the medical care is more available, if not better than they would get on the streets. I am not sure about what is meant by the smiling Correctional Officer thing (California Officers are considered as professional as street cops and consider the term "guard" to be an insult). The officers tend to be cordial to the inmates and negotiate rather than coerce for the behaviors they want. This actually makes the place safer for the officers although is requires more skill. By the way, that is one of the great improvements that women brought to the system when they started becoming officers. They demonstrated that brains works better than braun in gaining compliance. California prisons are still violent. Officers are assaulted all the time, but there is not the death toll there used to be. You are right though regarding the legal stuff. The courts have consistently supported inmates rights to carry on defense and appeals which on one hand is in keeping with our countries philosophy. Unfortunately, there are a tremendous amount of frivilous stuff that we tax payers end up paying for. The most ridiculous recent problems have been created by our new governor, Herr Gropinator, by agreeing to what is called the Validivia Decision rather than appealing it as Davis was doing. This, among other things, gives all parole violators defense lawyers at the state expense even though there is no prosecutor. Due to this and unworkable time constraints place on the Department of Corrections, dangerous inmates are constantly being released. It has become unofficially known as the "catch and release policy". | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Here's a thought. Let's say it's 1855, you're a free black in the south, and some scumbag tries to capture you for the purpose of selling you into slavery. Under those circumstances, is it moral to shoot the sumbich? I would argue "yes", and so would most Americans and pretty much every person of African-American descent. And the same is true today, which is why kidnapping is an offense that in many US states can be punished with the death penalty. What is a "slaver" doing? He's attempting to steal your future labor. So what's a thief doing? A: He's trying to steal your PAST labor. Right? So why is it proper to shoot a slaver and not shoot a thief? A: Because the power of the modern state isn't complete unless it's the sole determiner of life and death. And the people who make and judge laws are themselves mostly "statists", people who believe that the power of government SHOULD be the overriding force in society. We're starting to see a backlash. Wanna see that backlash in action, tracked over time between 1986 and present? http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php It tracks the progress of good state gun laws (allowing concealed carry of firearms in blue and green) and the slow death of bad laws (yellow and red). Regardless of where you stand personally on guns you'll find those maps damned interesting. | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
I have used the Sears cattle fence unit for over 2 decades on boats and my RV. No HARM (except the violation of the criminals assumed RIGHT to kill or ROB is violated) the shock is not very bad.Cows and criminals have about the same pain threshold. Any one that has tinkered with an auto HEI setup will know what it feels like. There are also remote triggered alarma that use the CB to alert folks up to a mile , with a truckers CB of a KW it probably will work further. A nasty but very effective setup is called Burgalarmist which rings an alarm (to remind you on entry) then blows off a big mace unit. NO ONE can steal when breathing with this dust. A pain to clean up tho. Other nastier methoods exist , and need to be used if boating places like Haiti, or "Camping" in the South Bronx. FAST FRED | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
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Many ideas, has anyone met my mother in law? I'll just tie her to the bumper anyone gets past that woman deserves what i have in the bus.....I just have to remember to untie her when we leave ................ | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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Since Fast Fred didn't bring up his post from the archives, I just *have* to post in here: By FAST FRED on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 "For those who prefer the more aggressive methods used ,I can only relate a story. ON boats small flair guns are frequently machined to chamber a real shotgun round (longer) where a flair went. Then the unit is rigged with a trip wire to fire a POPPER ,,a hunting dog training shell,, a small blank that only goes bang. OF course a couple of REAL shells are left out to steal. After being scared whitless a thief will realize the value of the flair gun and shells and steal them. OF course a flair gun cannot handle the firing pressure of a real shotgun shell so after getting home ,, when the thief tries out his new toy ,, his or her street name gets changed to STUMPPY." You just gotta love it. | ||
| t gojenola
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Many years ago when I still lived in a Seattle outskirt I had a problem with the neighborhood hoodlums. They became upset with my refusal to allow them to steal from my apple tree and took to the nightly filling my rural style mailbox with rocks. At the time I was pretty much into antique radio, tinkering with electronics, etc. So, in the back of the mail box I placed a 6v drycell battery hooked up to a model-T spark coil and wired the output to the the mail box, with a mercury switch taped to the door. For good measure I added in the biggest old 5-pound capacitor I had lying about and wired it in parallel with the spark coil output. The next morning the mail box door was open, the battery was dead and rocks were strewn all over the sidewalk. Problem solved tg | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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kinda like a Texas Telegram.....(a rattlesnake in the mailbox) | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Huh. You could do the same thing with a really cheap outright shotgun and some "handloads" using 3" magnum shells and a whole lot of fast-burn powder behind a heavy slug. Be a LOT worse than those flare guns, you'd be closer to "stick of dynomite" territory  . | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
The most amusing method I know of was used on a rough Carib island frequented by crewed charter boats. (Moonrise near full moon over a mountain is Spectacular!!) When an endless stream of kids come , claiming the bow is tied to "MY TREE" the charter dupes pass out $5.00 bills like candy. One less rich cruising gent had an Edwards Supply static electric generator. He went on deck the first evning (before dark when the kids would cut the line) And proceded to curse anyone that would come near. Hoo doo Voo Doo , AKA Hollywood. When the sparks junped from between his open hands , the beach CLEARED. NO Problems ,for him Ever!! FAST FRED | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I just go out & lite a fart | ||
| Richardkan (Richardkan)
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I was reading in the ad section of a gun magazine about a device that fills a whole house with pepper spray when it is triggered. Worked on the trip wire principle. Ad says the house would need to be aired out for a few hours following a release. Any thoughts? | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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no bugs | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
HEY 2Dawgs That could help you with your RAT problem... Can ya see them running down the road after the gas was released? I had some friends that lived in a home on a nice property. They had some very nice foilage, and they were especially proud of a bush in front of the door. The neighbor across the street, a friend of theirs, had this very large dog. The owners did not care to leash this dog, as they are required so he was able to run free. One of the spots where he like to piddle was on my friends shrub that they were so proud of. it was killing the shrub, but they were hessitant to mention the problem to their friends, who owned the dog. I suggested placing a grid in the shrub right at "target" level, and wire it thru a small bulb to the hot side of an outlet. They had a switch on it so it would only be hot when they saw the 'NICE DOGGIE' getting ready to lift the leg to water the plant. I had forgotton about the problem but one day they come with a big smile on their face. I asked what was up, and they said the shrub problem was cured. When I asked further, they said they observed the dog lifting his leg. They waited till he had a good stream going then hit the switch. i guess he jumped 5 foot in the air and was running at the same time with a noise from his mouth only a mother could love. When he hit ground, he squeeled out of there like a race car. They said the dog avoided the entire yard, staying on HIS side of the street until clear of the yard, where he would then cross the street and water someone ELSES shrubbery. The friendship was saved, so was the shrub. cd | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I'll tell ya' a BETTER one...when I was living in Long Beach...this couple used to walk their dog after dark...so they didn't have to pick up the do do.....he used to 'feces'in our yard EVERY nite....all you have to do is squirt some bacon grease on it...next nite...he comes by & eats it...& takes it back home | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
Hey I like that, he cleans up after himself.... One of the fellows at work was having a problem with a dog getting into his garbage. This dog would knock off the cover and tip the garbage cans over, spreading the insides all over the porch area as he searched for tidbits of goodies from the kitchen. He followed the dog one night and found the owners home. They would let the dog out and forget about him for a couple hours, meanwhile, the dog canvased the neighborhood for what he could find. The solution was a pound of hamburger, browned with a BRICK of exlax mixed in well. This mix was loosly wrapped in tinfoil and left on top of the garbage can. Sure enough, the dog came that night, found the hamburger and chowed down. Having had his fill he wandered home. The next day there was quite a commotion at the dog owners house. Seems they let him in for the night. Sometime during the night, the hamburger KICKED IN and he sprayed the carpets, the walls, the new furniture, tables, everything that was in the way. They tried to get him outside before he did more damage but the strength of the ExLax cleaned him out. He was kept on a chain from then on. Ingenuity at its best..... cd | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Hey TD.... did the same thing to the bro-in-law.. | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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I did it to a guy that used to steal my desserts from my lunch box. (I used brownies ...not hamburger) He dehydrated badly and I sweated criminal charges for a few days. Tom? Are you out there? ...JJ | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
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John that reminds me of a good one, and i probably do know who Tom is......"N"......while working maintenance, serveral pipefitters and others loved to pull the "hog law" on us way before it was time......I came in one morning opening the door to the shop to this really great aroma, i knew right away that someone had baked chocolate chip cookies, i went to the table and as i started to sample the cookies this deep voice...said, "I wouldn't eat those!" heart broken i asked, "Why?", the answer was, it could be hazardous to your health, then he explains how they were made.........(the chocolate chips were not as they seemed), to shorten this story by the end of the day 5 pipefitters, two iron workers, and several operators were spending a lot of time in the restroom, needless to say that was 20 or more years ago, and we were never hog lawed again! | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
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I forgot to mention....the Supervisor, was a victim also.............. |