| Author |
Message |
Jerry (64.12.104.49)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 11:29 pm: | |
Planning the fine details of a properly installed propane supply system in the 4106 I'm converting brings more questions than answers. The ANSI A119.2 / NFPA1192 1999 edition has been of some help. Seems the best compartment for my chosen 2 - 40# propane tanks seems to be the old heat exchanger compartment - curb or door side (now completely empty). I think I can figure ways to comply with all of what I read in the standard but WONDERING A PRACTICAL WAY TO DO THE REQUIRED VENTILATION (1sq" per 7# of propane capacity). What is a "nice looking" way and place to cut holes for the ventilation - in the door? in the wheel well? How about an expanded metal (grid like) floor? Having never, yet, had a chance to see many other bus conversions (nor knowing enough at the time to know what to look at any way) any suggestions would be helpful. btw - yes - attending a bus conversion convention or rally is something I'd really like to do "one of these days" (that long one of these days list). and btw 2 if any of ye all bus nuts are spending any time in the St Louis area and would be willing to show an interested person around your bus -- please contact me. |
FAST FRED (63.215.236.88)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 7:32 am: | |
80 lbs of propane will only require a few 4 inch holes drilled thru the floor.
Use an extra hole to make up for the area of any screening that is used to keep visitors out.
Mice and rats can chew thru heavy wire , so go extra heavy with the hole guards , as the mice LOVE wiring.
FAST FRED |
Jerry (64.12.106.28)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 10:31 pm: | |
The ANSI standard states [propane] "compartments shall be ventilated at or near the top and at the extreme bottom to facilitate diffusion of vapors." Suggestions for ways folks place this "at or near the top" ventilation opening is what I wish I could see how some converters have done. An opening in the door with some lovered cover? The rear of the right front wheel well - again with some lovered cover to keep some of the dirt & splash out from the front wheel? |
Jim Stacy (12.87.109.247)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 10:52 pm: | |
Jerry,
Since propane is heavier than air, it will leave via the vents in the floor. Upper venting is just to let air in to allow the propane to fall. Venting high through the wall toward the bus rear or toward the back of the compartment should get it done without getting into the complexities of wheel well splash. The fuel tank is next to the compartment in question, I believe. Nothing wrong with venting to the top area there.
Jim Stacy |
FAST FRED (63.215.230.124)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 5:27 am: | |
The old blower area IS very well vented as its the source for the outside air in the stock heater configuration.
Tons of vent air from all those holles drilled in sidewall of coach , with a big nice ductwork down to blower area.
FAST FRED |
CoryDaneRTSII (4.17.253.93)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 3:39 pm: | |
Well I beleive that Propane MUST be installed with all circumstances in mind, knowing the fact that propane is heavy and will fall will not save your coach if the hi psi line bursts, fills the compartment and gas gets in the coach, THEN you have puddles of propane IN YOUR COACH and the next spark will be the last.
FORGET the small holes in the floor, take the floor out and instal a grate to support the tank unless it hangs from the top. PROPANE is a slow, lazy gas and it will fill that compartment with the small holes quickly, then it goes into the coach. Give it no resistance to leaving the storage area under any and all conditions. Dont let it have a chance to form a puddle in the compartment or in the coach. Some believe small holes will work, and it will when all is well but it only takes ONE catastrophic event(such as the regulator releasing hi psi propane, liquid line burst, etc), if you know what I mean. I firmly believe that we as campers have become so comfortable with using this form of heat that we are a bit complacent to its dangers. Build it right, build it safe and you should not have any worries as you use this tool for your needs.
I had to go to FIRE SCHOOL and the propane fire was the most furious, hot and destructive of them all, and if this is allowed to puddle before it ignites, well, don't let it have the first chance, thats all-cd |
Scott Whitney (63.151.68.130)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 6:09 pm: | |
Cory, I am not sure if I understand. So if one has a grated floor propane compartment, what else should one have? How would the propane get into the coach if the coach is above it?
BTW, in my transit install, I used a solid floor platform that the tanks sit on, and all sides are completely open to the atmosphere except for the side of the bus side. It hangs from angle iron in the corners. My permanent tank hangs from brackets and is open to air on all sides except above it.
Thanks,
Scott |
CoryDaneRTSII (4.17.253.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2001 - 8:24 am: | |
Scott,
It is my belief to let the lazy propane gas have every advantage to get away from the bus. I call it lazy because it does not move like a liquid, it is slow, billowy like a cloud when it is in gas form.
My concern for the coach is that the compartment will fill with propane gas, whether from a liquid line burst, leak, gas leak at hi psi. a compartment with a couple of holes would not be enough for this lazy gas to meander out, the force of the leak will move it around and build up a puddle, filling the compartment. Eventually, the compartment will be full of propane and the next place to go is the coach, through seams, ports where the line go through, anywhere that the gas can follow up and into the coach.
As for your installation, you say you have a solid bottom floor and no sides except the bus sides. You did say the (tanks) sit on the floor. as long as the tanks do not hinder the flow of the lazy gas under catastrophic conditions, hi psi leakage, I would think you would be ok(you know if your ventilation is unhindered or not). with 100% ventilation for the propane tank and nothing preventing the leaking propane to evacuate the storage area, the bus is safe.
I have always patterned my design after my RV installation-no I did not install it-where the tank hangs from the RV frame, there is a door in the side for access, there is no floor rear or side panels, wide open for ventilation or emergency gas venting. They used galvanized pipe and copper line for distribution where I will be using copper line. Of course, this type of installation exposes the tank to the elements and street salts. give it a good coat of protective paint-I used POR15 on my bus tank. This stuff is tough as nails and protects the metal of the tank from the elements. My RV tank was already rusted far to badly when I bought the motorhome so I prepared the bus tank.
Thats getting off the subject, but I have seen conversions with tanks installed inside a sealed compartment-oh my.
I like propane and its many uses and I think we all can enjoy what it does for us, and I want to see that everyone does it with no chance of trouble in the conversion. Hey, we put a lot of time and money into these beauties, would'nt want to see them blow apart in a mere fraction of a second due to an oversight in fuel storage installation.
And don't forget your propane detectors inside the bus. Remember, propane is heavy and floats down so the detector has to be low to the floor to pick it up.
Sorry, I get to be a real wind bag, but I saw the hulk of a bus that blew apart from a propane explosion. We know how these buses are almost indestructable, but this one couldnot be salvaged. And RV's blow the walls off of the frame... A little knowledge makes for happier days ;^) -Best to you all-cd |
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