| Author | Message | ||
| Nick Russell (64.12.106.26)
Rating: |
Okay, we're ready to start running electric wiring for the wall outlets and such in our MCI 8. My question is how to run the wiring. Some folks suggest running it in a chase outside the wall, maybe under or over the window frame. Then how do you drop it through the wall to wire into the receptacles? Others say to run it in the wall, behind the paneling or plywood or whatever. In that case, how do I route it around the vertical frame posts in the wall? Somebody said to drill through them and run the wire through a grommet at each hole. Any comments? | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.186.217.191)
Rating: N/A |
I have had a great deal of success running the wiring in 3/4" or 1" conduit at the floor on each wall, breaking out at boxes or 'T's to go up the wall to outlets or into the ceiling or to the face of cabinets. Vertical conduit is at the back corners of closets, etc. Greatest thing about conduit is if you forget a circuit, just pull another wire thru the pipe. After the lo-volt wires exit the conduit (if it doesn't go into a receptacle box, as with 120 volt stuff) you can use a spiral wire wrap (made by Alpha) to make a neat bundle that is protected from harm. Conduit is not expensive, easy to bend (after a few tries) and is permanent. Wiring inside is THHN stranded copper available at any electric supply house. Just keep the wire out of the wall where it is not serviceable in the future. As with all things, failure is eventually inevitable! Run a lo-volt and a hi-volt conduit to keep them separate. All 12volt wiring should be 12ga minimum and possibly 10ga for longer runs like 25 feet or more to avoid voltage drop. Just a hint: If you plan on using halogen hockey puck lights under the cabinets or in the ceiling, undersize the wire slightly relative to the length of run to reduce the voltage. Inverters and chargers will maintain the voltage at 13.2 and the halogen bulbs really need 12 volts or a little less for long life. Jim | ||
| JayJAy (64.12.102.52) Rating: N/A |
You can run the low and high voltage wire in the same conduit if you wantto, as long as the low voltage wire insulation is rated the same as the highest voltage in the conduit. Choose your wire colors carefully and you will have no problem.White is the neutral (identified conductor) and green is the ground, the others may be any color or all black. Make a chart of what you used and then back it up with Brady Markers (wire number system) THHN/THWN/MTW/TFFE/XHHW/ are all acceptable insulations, and are tougher than an old maids heart. Good luck, and Cheers...JJ | ||
| George Myers (12.85.14.48) Rating: N/A |
The code does not permit running 120 VAC along with low voltage wires (12 VDC, audio, TV, etc.) The code is the National Electrical Code available in any library or book store. Article 551 applies to RVs. Why guess what is safe or take other people's word on what they think the code requires. Get your own copy, study it, follow it, live long, and prosper. | ||
| Ted Calvert (Chowbus) (205.188.201.214)
Rating: N/A |
Well said, George! | ||
| Steve Fessenden (63.27.88.81) Rating: N/A |
If you happen to be shopping for a used professional conversion, be aware that some of them had 120 volt and 12 volt / 24 volt in the same cables and on the same terminal strips. I assume the newer ones do not. Steve Fessenden | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.225.237) Rating: N/A |
IF the "code" meant anything I'm sure Custom Coach of Ohio would be using it. Since they can't be bothered with " cheap little house" wiring that is of limited use in a mooving vehicle , why should anyone NOT do the best safest witing?? The "code" was created by the sticks & staples MFG's to have somthing to hide behind ,in a law suit. No question there are 4 or 5 million RV's made over the past half century , as fast and as cheaply as possable, and they fall apart usually before burning down. BUT its your life and family , so why cheap out when a first class job costs only a couple of bucks more? FAST FRED | ||
| Lightn Steve (166.102.23.136)
Rating: N/A |
Not to that point yet but the only wiring I intend to put in conduit and in the wall before spray foam will be the wiring to the roof vents for roof A/C and vent fans. The rest will be laid up in a channel so I can get to the wiring if need be. BTW Nick, Good job on the Gypsy Journal, I enjoy it very much. I am also working on a MC8 Steve | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad) (204.193.117.66)
Rating: N/A |
I have tried to follow "code" on our conversion because, in the event of a system failure, the insurance company cannot say "we are not liable because you did not build to code". Most of the code is common sense. If you run low voltage and high voltage in same conduit, over the years you may forget which is low and which is high. Or, if you sell the bus, what about the new owner? Just my opinion, Jack | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.68.130) Rating: N/A |
Before my ins. company will insure for anything beyond liability, they want the electrical done by an electrician. When I get to that stage, I am hoping to do it myself to, or beyond, code and then get an electrician to sign off on it. Or maybe I'll run all the wire, install breaker boxes, fixtures, switches etc. and then let him or her make all the final connections. . . | ||
| George Myers (12.85.14.117)
Rating: N/A |
August 31, 2001 I find it interesting that Fred would hold up a factory conversion company as the voice of ultimate authority on how a conversion should be built. Let's cut to bottom line. The National Electrical Code describes may ways the wiring can be done. All of these techniques have been PROVEN over time to meet modern standards for safety and reliability. If you do not follow them and you have a fire that can be blamed on the wiring, your insurance company will claim negligence on your part and they are under no obligation to pay. If someone is killed, expect to spend some serious jail time for manslaughter. I doubt that saying that "Fast Fred on the Internet told me to do it this way." will hold much weight in court. The 120 VAC wiring in an RV is not a new technology. Safe techniques are well established. The industry is so highly developed that there is a book available describing these techniques (the code) that is available in any library or book store. When you decide that you, or your Internet friends know better, you are playing a VERY high stakes game. On the other hand, it is somewhat like Russian Roulette, the odds are at least 5 out of 6 that nothing will go wrong. The same also applies to the LP system. George Myers PS. If you do feel you must go with marine standards, be sure you do so ALL THE WAY. Marine codes are also documented. Get the book and read it. A marine certified switch on marine certified cable needs to be in a marine certified box with marine certified connectors etc. etc. etc. GM | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.237.119) Rating: N/A |
I got the code and read it from end to end. For someone with no concept of a good job it should work fine. For someone that has been in aircraft and marine industries the code is pitiful. It gives the illusion that a vehicle will be safe using cheapest house methods. NO question most Wynnyboboos don't burn to the ground {often enough for the press to notice}, but how many times have you visited a coach , and the owner cautioned not to use the hand grip , when standing on the ground ? House wiring , gone bad , as usual. The joy of this hobby is that we can all do our coaches OUR WAY. If the little house on wheels code makes someone happy, GREAT. If someone else prefers to do a pro style electrical system for a VEHICLE , why not? People seem to worry far more about having the mattress tag , than noticing the mattress is cheap crap made for the mfg ease. I'll stick with Custom Coach style, thanks FAST FRED | ||
| dougthebonifiedbusnut (24.147.153.205)
Rating: N/A |
fred i agree with you that if you have a working knowledge of electrical and mechanical systems you can probobly find ways that may be as good or even better than what the code might dictate but george has a point when a new commer to these systems may be concerned maybe a good referance such as the code may be in order my schooling will insure that my systems will be as good but more often than not better than code. | ||
| mel 4104 (208.181.100.85) Rating: N/A |
right on Fred. after spending 36 years in the elect. trade I agree with Fred that a great deal of most codes are written by some one that needed a job but could not handle tools. if the major coach converters were out of code the insurance guys would shut them down.use comman sense and go better and not cheap and you should be fine | ||
| FAST FRED (63.208.87.40) Rating: N/A |
The problem I have with the RV code is its really NOT made for vehicles, but houses. No vehicle code will allow a multistranded copper wire to be captured by a screw. Aircraft , boats , and cars and even our coached ALL have proper terminal ends secured to all wires. OK, on mine I go a bit further and the eye terminals do get soldered and shrink protected and I do use a star washer under every screw, just like GM does , on vehicles. The housey circuit breakers , even the Square D ones that are OK for DC will open a circuit at near the rated current. But with a DC battery capable of putting out thousands of amps {and starting a fire} the ability to BREAK a very high current is required. For that you need an aircraft or marine breaker , not a housey cheapo. Finally the interior of a coach has much more vibration and moisture than the usual suburban box. Tinned , high grade multistranded wire , is far superior to cheap house stuff, even in a wiring chase, as the support ends somewhere , and from there to the appliance is the problem. Its soo much easier to build a vehicle the first time , and never have to repair and upgrade from "moving house" code. FAST FRED | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (205.188.197.13)
Rating: N/A |
Just an additional thought here relative to marine wiring standards vs. RV NEC standards. If the wiring fails 2000 miles out at sea, you're shark food and are never seen again. If the wiring fails in an RV, pull over, get out and (1)watch it burn, (2)call a tow truck and (3)call the insurance company. Vastly different consequences as a result of failure. Hundreds of thousands of plastic RV's are made using Romex wire and yet very few fail. More damage is done by cabinets or microwave ovens falling off walls than by fires started by Romex failures in these production RV's. Overkill is OK but the electric code is certainly satisfactory for thousands. Personally, Romex is out, conduit is in and boat wire is bulky and messy. They all work and if installed properly, all will work for a very long time. To each our own, eh!! Jim |
