| Author | Message | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Folks, The usual "basic" way to mount solar panels on an RV is to screw in small metal "L" brackets to the roof (with a liberal application of sealant) at each corner of where a panel would be. Sounds OK for an aluminum-skin bus or "plastic/rubber/fiberglas" such as on most RVs, but I have concerns about something with a galvanized steel skin like, say, a Bluebird/Wanderlodge type. In such cases, it seems better to me to take the paint off of small patches and use "L brackets" for each solar panel corner that have a fairly high surface area (like say 6" by 6" or more contacting the bus skin) and *glue* 'em to the bus metal...then do touch-up paint around the edges color-matched as best you can. Unless you plan to re-paint anyways...in which case, do the solar panel mounts as one step in the paint process, glueing them in after the old paint is stripped and then painting the brackets to match everything else?). My nightmare is that after a few years I'll notice the first "rust streak weeping" from the holes drilled for the traditional mounts. Are there "high tech glues" that could work with such homebrewed solar mounts? | ||
| cd Rating: N/A |
If you are seeing rust streaks from the mounting points, that indicates that the either the screws or the brackets have not been protected properly to prevent water from getting to the metal. It is much less a concern if the brackets are made of almuminum. CoolSeal makes a white and there is a clear seal made by someone else that will form-fit around and seal these points. In the case of CoolSeal, they suggest a cloth that gets saturated and covers the seams, making a solid, one piece seal around the bracket and roof that won't leak if applied properly. The clear seal needs a cloth, similar to fiber cloth that "disappears" when the clear seal is applied. There is a lot of wind and force on the roof when in travel mode and I just don't trust glue to hold something that big and bulky. There is too much for the wind to catch and rip away at its weak point. Its all and good to use glue but when it rips away and smashes through someones windshield on the high way, the court may frown upon a large "wing" like item simply GLUED to the roof rather than looking at a screwed down bracket that was torn apart for the panel to break loose. there is impact in every choice we make in conversions. cd | ||
| walkabout Rating: N/A |
3M makes a two sided tape that will hold your pannels on till the panel falls apart 200mph winds wont even faze it. Remember aussie vehicle that used it to hold on his tread plate sides to offroad rv he made. to remove after it was stuck generally destroyed the 3/16 aluminium | ||
| Peter nunn
Rating: N/A |
Check out this web site to see how an Aussie used double sided sticky tape http://www.robgray.com/motorhomes/index.htm then check out the diary page 23. just love your B.B pete | ||
| DrDave
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The 3M tape is called "VHB" and is used to literally hold automotive sheetmetal skins on stuff. Many trailers that appear to have few if any attach points like rivets or screw have the skin bonded on with VHB and it does work. It requires a little surface prep and the special primer, After that the sheet metal will tear out before the tape gives up. Oh.. It's expensive too! I would use VHB pads and seal around the area with Sikaflex 221 then coat with your favorite normal roof sealer. You may want to make new brackets that have a larger base area to provide more area to bond. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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>>You may want to make new brackets that have a larger base area to provide more area to bond.<< Yeah, had that figured out already (see first post). The 3M VHB looks perfect for this app... | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
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Try using alumimumimummmm panel mounts along with stainless steel mounting screws/bolts and along with the aluminum roof you should not have any rust streaks. Also, with the general flexing one would expect on the roof of the bus, any super gunk glue stuff may not hold up and the panels may fly off at road speed. Your decision. | ||
| LABryan Rating: N/A |
That VHB stuff works great, right up until it fails. I had a 53" by 11" stainless rub rail panel, at least 25lbs, fall off my bus while driving last week. I was shocked to find that the four heavy aluminum braces beneath the skin (still firmly attached to bay door with 5/8" stainless bolts) were affixed to the stainless skin of the rail with only that double sided tape. The tape became separated from the braces and the rail fell off, with no prior warning that it was loose. Luckily it happened in town, so the only damage was the munching of that $320 piece of shiny metal by my back wheels. But this occured less than a block from the freeway onramp I was headed for. Had it fallen off five minutes later it could have caused a real tragedy. I have since learned from IBP that they use both Sikaflex and the tape on the new replacement rub rails they make. Be careful about how you stick stuff to the exterior of your bus! Bryan | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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Jim: Lot of work for something that ain't worth a sh-- to begin with (TIC). The VHB is good, providing you make a large enough pad at the mounting point. I don't think I would trust something like 1 or 2 sq inches. They also make industrial grade epoxies (looks like JB Weld) that will do it. The sidewalls of the Grumman are all bonded with industrial epoxy. I know you can't break the bond; I tried, broke the aluminum. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Jim- One word = Velcro | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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>>Try using alumimumimummmm panel mounts along with stainless steel mounting screws/bolts and along with the aluminum roof you should not have any rust streaks.<< Henry: again, see my first post regarding galvanized steel bodied Bluebirds... | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
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John that newguy, I have no idea why, but we had some industrial strength velcro suddenly let go. It was holding our shower door closed. It has made us a little more cautious about velcro. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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JTNG: Wrong, 2 words, diesel generator | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Tom- A minority friend of mine's head is still stuck to his girlfriend's private parts.. Been three years. The concept works. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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JTNG: That remark should be stricken and is wholly inappropriate in any forum, and especially so in a public one. Even humor has boundaries. | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
One concern is the solar works better when cooler , so I would be sure to leave air space under the panel so it can cool. They get HOT in the direct sun! FAST FRED | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Jim- There had been a bus pictured on one of the sites, where the converter used the rain gutter on each side to affix rails that supported his solar array. It looked like an automotive roof-rack and appeared to provide space under the array for the wires (or whatever)... I guess it'd be a viable option to drilling holes in the roof itself? And James- I'm not sure what part offended you (or anyone else). I don't care to read foul language, hate-filled words, or demeaning dialog directed at individuals or groups.... but that's my personal boundary. | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
Not to get into the offensive remark thread, however, in these days of "politically correct" speech, many things are not accepted today that were overlooked years past. Please, I don't need a rebuttal to the above comment. AS to adding a couple holes in the roof for solar arrays, it is a great decision to owners who don't want to put holes in their bus roof. Especially the ones that have welded seams. We all fear leaks. I have had good luck with the Silicone brand sealants but later, I started adding the KoolSeal treatment over the seams of brackets and such (including the cloth for flex) and I have never experienced a leak in 15 years. I have shyed away from just gluing items, something I might have been more willing to do years ago simply because I have not found a glue that is "permanent"! Irregardless of what the manufacturer claims, once that product is installed and the weather attacks it, it seems like a matter of time before a problem occurs. Just my thoughts to help keep us out of trouble. cd | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
CD- That gave me a thought.... If Jim prefers to use a glue, he could anchor the solar panels further, by adding straps or cables attached to the rain gutter and travel across the panel to the opposite rain gutter. That would prevent the lifting or shifting of the panel, should the glue fail. I personally hate to puncture the roof, if I can help it... | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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The light weight thin profile stranded s/s cable would almost be invisible and it is mighty strong - Niles | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Some good thoughts here. * Anchoring to the rain gutters is fine so long as you don't drill through the gutters. Those are galvanized steel too on the Bluebirds and we don't want those rusting either. * The Unisolar panels work BETTER when hot. (Yeah, they're weird.) The "peel and stick" type might be of interest too - they're meant to be stuck to galvanized steel panels...why not stick 'em straight onto the roof steel? True, they're WAY oversize for the wattage (128w means an 18ft long by 16in strip!) but four of those would fit OK and would be aerodynamic as hell. I'd use 16" worth of the VHB tape on the forward edges to make sure they don't peel in the wind... * Stainless steel "string" tie-downs sound good EXCEPT that if they rub on the painted exterior they'll strip 'em and induce rust (sigh). Sigh. The more I look, the more I like the idea of four 128k Unisolar peel'n'sticks... | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Jim- "they rub on the painted exterior they'll strip 'em and induce rust" PVC glued to the roof to guide the s/s guys would prevent that.... And.... "gutters. Those are galvanized steel" ??? Really? Ok... How about replacing the small section of gutter with aluminumumiminum, where you have to connect to? Holy Carp..... How about a different bus that's easier to work with? | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
If you go to aluminum gutters, you're back to square one: how do you attach THOSE to the galvanized steel without drilling holes...?  The reason I'm looking at the Bluebird "pullers" (*maybe* a factory "Wanderlodge" but probably not) is... 1) Strong as hell rear bumper because the frame rails go right back there. That makes possible all sorts of things, esp. a heavy duty motorcycle rack or even a small enclosed "box" off the rear lengthening the rig by 3.5' or so and enclosing a bike. 2) Another option: Bluebird conversions based on the skoolie usually have a rear door big enough to get a bike clean into. This means you could take a 35' platform, make the back 6ft or so an outright "garage" with a wall and door in front, use the forward 29' for living space. (More radical version, same concept: lift the roof 2.5ft or so in the rear 8ft, put a 3ft upper bunk bed above a lower garage...this is my top choice if I can afford it.) The other main "not a rear engine" bus types that you'd think would work the same way are the Crowns and Gilligs with mid-engine setups...but the rear frame rail areas are NOT as strong, they're set up as "rear crumple zones" with deliberately weakened frame rails behind the rearmost axle and are hence poor choices for these various "rear garage gameplans". The Bluebird however is THE hot ticket for this purpose. I need to be able to "urban boondock" with high security with no separate motorcycle trailer or exposed motorcycle storage. Only a converted Crown Postal is similar and would be even better, but I can't afford the time or money to do a fresh conversion and there's nothing pre-converted on the market. Bluebird conversions ARE on the market, or a rear door could be done easily enough in a 35' Wanderlodge puller ("FC") cheap enough. ------------- I *could* maybe stuff the right sort of bikes into a GMC Bufallo bay. Kind of a pain but it'd work...but there's issues there too: a Buf in good shape pre-converted (4107 35') is $30,000 and gets 8mpg whereas I can get a 35' Bluebird conversion nicely finished with rear door for $16,500 and 10mpg. Then add $5k for a roof-raise on the rear 10ft, $5k for fresh paint, I'm still under the Buff's cost and hell yes, I've got an actual workbench garage space usable with a roll-around stool and otherwise similar living quarters room. Manual 5sp *syncro* tranny behind a 225hp Cummins non-turbo 504 V8, 2sp airshifted rear axle, all "stone axe" stuff with less than 65k miles since full teardown. And FAR simpler maintenance long-term than a Buff, 'cept for that galvanized steel body... | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Hey Jim did you see the post I left for you on the E*** section ? Niles | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"Bluebird conversions ARE on the market,a 35' Wanderlodge puller ("FC") is cheap enough." The gas units are far easier to live with and purchase than the diesel. AS Wanderlodge installed diesels they were considered unacceptable by most of the carrage trade. The diesel was VERY hard to silence inside the coach , and if you were foolish enough to open the drivers window underway , a sound canceling headset was needed . NOISE reflected from the road was as loud as the Toothless Hog Bar at closing time. Caviat Emptor , take it for a ride BEFORE you buy one! Has a 31 ft Wanderlodge Gasser with 391 Ford and 6 speed Allison & it was GREAT urban assualt vehicle , FAST power steering and short wheelbase meant you could go ANYWHERE!! with ease. We went to Tag Sales in suburban neighborhoods with never a hassle! FAST FRED | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
I have seen some of the "peel'n stick" panels and have given some thought about it. I think the peel'n stick would work and maybe a strip or two of the VHB tape, then to prevent the panels from being able to get any wind under them, use the proven KoolSeal just along the edges. The panels I looked at were White so the Koolseal would be invisible if you made careful strips. Treat the application as you would a seam, using the cloth, which is used on seams which might see vibration and break down most other seam sealers. Of course, if you ever needed to take the panel up again, you would have a job on your hands. But this sounds like a very secure way to go. cd | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Yeah. The Unisolar "peel and stick" panels are WAY oversize for the wattage (128w out of a 16" wide by 18 FEET panel?) but the COST per wattage isn't half bad - esp. if you're not buying steel mounting plates. The plus side: they work better as it gets hotter and have good diodes throughout to reduce "minor shadow drop" (the individual cells hit by shade are hosed but the rest of the panel still pumps out juice). Plus they'd be tough and aerodynamic. |