| Author |
Message |
Dave Hartshorne (Yeeolde48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 9:07 pm: | |
Hi All, back from travels and getting the scenicruiser out this weekend. Since the tax check came in while I was gone, the first stop will be for tires. 10 of them. I have spent the last few weeks calling around for best prices on new rubber (not considering caps) but trying to get the best deal and have also read the recent posts on tires. I have been offered a full set of 10 11R22.5 16 ply Dayton transit tires installed balanced and taxes paid for $2900 (load rating 6610lbs). This from a dealer that 5 out of 6 truck companies refered me to. The price is at least $1000 less than other tire dealers in the area. He also has other well known brands for $4-500 more for the set, again considerably less than other dealers. Does anyone have experience with the Dayton tire, or would you recomend paying the extra for the brand name. Secondly, the bus came with 12R's on the front (and 11R's on the rear), any concerns switching to the smaller 11R up front? Appreciate any comments. Cheers, Dave |
Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 9:23 pm: | |
Hi Dave & Folks:
Your scenic. is a "HEAVY" coach, and if it were mine and I were spending my money, I would go for 16ply/rated 12R22.5's!!!!
The 11:00 tires were provided on "NEW' 35 foot coaches for years in the "Tube Type Tire" days.
With the advent of the 40 foot coach, in mass production and the introduction of tubeless tires to the bus industry, the standard became the 12R/22.5 tire. And it remains so today, in the commercial bus industry, although nomenclature may have changed to metric sizes.
This is based upon my 43 years in the bus industry and I offer it for what it is worth!!!
I hope it HELPS!!!
LUKE at US COACH |
mel 4104
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 9:34 pm: | |
Dave, you should be able to run the 12-22.5 on the rear as the answer i got from a bus mec. told me that they ran the smaller tires on the rear due to the smaller tire diameter gave them more room to put chains on the bus in the snow but said that they ran with the 12-22.5 all the rest of time. also he said that they run bandags on the rear, this is a gray hound -laidlaw company so do not be affraid to use recaps i have had the on the back of my 4104 for 12 years and the fellow that had the bus before me had them on for another14 years without trouble. all the logging trucks and highway tractors in this area use them. oh i also will only use Bridgestone on the front as they give a better no sway ride and handle mush better when driving on very windy roads. but sorry i cannot coment on the tires that you are looking at , just rember the $3-400 that you might save may be needed for medical coverage as your life depends on the tires. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 9:42 pm: | |
I'm new at this. but have been doing one helluva lot of legwork....
I'd go 12r22.5 or the new 315/80r/22.5. They're available all
over, since all the newer rigs are using them. Those 11/22.5s
are history. (prolly the great price, huh?) |
John Jewett (Jayjay)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 10:07 pm: | |
I've been running Dayton 11.00 X 22.5's for several years on my 4905. Not transit tires though, and made in Brazil. Mine are steering tires all around. I had some Hankook's and all I can say is they belong in a quarry on a truck! The Daytons have a nice ride, no early morning "nylon-type" thumping, and they run cooler than the Hankooks did. My limited experience, but you asked. Hey Luke, I didn't think you were even 43, let alone that many years in bussing. You must have chosen your ancestors well! Cheers...JJ |
Dave Hartshorne (Yeeolde48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 10:24 pm: | |
Thanks for the quick response guys. I had tried to find 12R22.5's late last year and did not have much success local to Cincinnati. So have been asking dealers to quote me for 11R's over the last couple of weeks. Will make the rounds again tomorrow and see if I can find the 12R's, or metric equivalents. |
Sean Welsh (Sean)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 1:27 am: | |
Dave,
Dayton is made by Bridgestone/Firestone.
You did not mention which model tire this is, but, based on the size and load you mentioned, I think it is the On/Off Highway All-Position.
Be advised that the 6610 load rating is for single tires only. The load rating is 6005lbs max in dual applications.
Also, this tire is speed rated for a max of 65mph.
Lastly, this is a pretty agressive tread, which will be noisy, especially on the steers, and will not wear very well in your application.
As noted above, I would go with 12R22.5 tires. Dayton does make one tire in this size, which is an all-position rib tire. It is rated for 75mph and load rated at 7300lbs single, 6780 dual. That extra 775lbs per tire adds up to another 7,000+ lbs total capacity on your coach.
More tread patterns and load ratings are available in 12R22.5 from other makes (including the other two Bridgestone brands).
HTH,
-Sean |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 3:24 am: | |
Dave -
Other than Sean's comment about the speed rating, here is some other info about "transit" tires:
These are built differently than highway models, as they're designed to be banged against curbs all day long. (Transit drivers use the curb as a retarder, or supplemental braking system.) Because of this, the sidewalls are considerably thicker and heavier than the highway type. Take a look at an actual transit tire, compared to the other type. You'll see about a 1"-wide band around the bulge portion of the tire's sidewall, with evenly-spaced dimples w/in the band. Those are the wear indicators, and the transit fleet's tire guy watches them closely (as well as the rest of the tire, obviously). When the dimples are gone, the tire is swapped out.
Because of the heavier sidewall construction, these tires heat up more than the others at highway speeds, creating a real potential for failure, which is whay the manufacturers rate them for lower maximums. Used to be 50 - 55 mph, but many have now inched up to 60 - 65 to accomodate the transit operations that utilze freeway commuter runs as well as suburban stop-n-go service.
These tires also handle heat differently. Transit brakes get HOT, especially in the summertime, so the manufacturers modify the rubber compound to withstand the heat, particularly around the bead. Ride quality is one off the sacrifices - they do ride rougher than highway tires. (BTDT!!)
Now it may seem like those last two paragraphs contradict each other, and in a way, they do. But there is a difference.
From my conversations with the Goodyear factory rep that handled our transit fleets tire inventory, transit tires are designed to absorb and radiate out the heat generated by the BRAKES, not the heat generated within the tread area by high speeds. Also had something to do with the heat generated by the sidewalls flexing, but CR at the moment exactly what that was.
Luke's right, the Scenic is a heavy coach, even when stripped empty. I'd agree with him about putting 12R22.5s (or the metric equivalent 318/80R22.5s) all the way around - including the spare. "Steer" tires are the quietest, btw, drive axle models the noisest.
Stick to the recommended size, and make sure it's rated for 75 (or plus) mph.
What price safety????
FWIW,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 9:44 pm: | |
Dave, not all 55 mph tires are transits, even in the 315 size. We have one that came from a dump truck because we wore one out from a bad kingpin.
That tire runs at the same pressure as our Unisteel II set, which is 16 ply and 75 mph rated, but it runs 20 degrees cooler than any of the others, according to our IR thermometer.
It appears that this tire (Toyo) was built to handle greater loads than any of our regular ones. Manufacturer says over 9000 lbs., maximum at 130 psi and it mounts on a 9 inch wide wheel.
In one such table, there is a note that the tire speed is not restricted for lighter loads. I think that the only reason for the 55 mph rating is to get the tire up to 9000 lbs. capacity.
We only run about half that, so it's no problem for us.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 10:00 pm: | |
Dave
RJ made a typo. That should have been "315", not "318".
(sjit hammens)
You might want to forget the automotive tire companies and
look for the trucking companies and bus companies instead.
I had great luck asking at a local transit mix outfit, about who
to go to for tires. They pointed me to the place I now get my
315/80r/22.5s at.
And Tom is 100% correct. The heavier the load (as in maxxed out)
the lower the speed you can use, without fear of failure. Keep
in mind, it's a manufacturer's "cover my butt" disclaimer.
"Speeds over 120 mph while changing lanes in the Mid-Town tunnel
can cause temporary sexual dysfunction" |
Dave Hartshorne (Yeeolde48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 10:16 pm: | |
Thanks for all the posts guys, and especially Luke for the telecon advice today. I called around and have found a few places that can get me 12R22.5 and 315/80r/22.5's but know one keeps 10 in stock. Best price was around $320 including FET. I found caps were readily available in these sizes almost anywhere for around $175. Looks like my original low price shop is still the best deal, and appears to be the most willing to work with me to change out steel for alloy wheels etc. Also his install and balance prices are about 30% lower than the other places ($18 install and $18 balance).
Have not talked to the local bus companies, may try that tomorrow, but all the truck companies but one sent me to the same place. I plan to go over and place the order in the next couple of days and hope to be on new rubber by this time next week, unless the bus companies give me something new to check.
Cheers all,
Dave PD4501-304 |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 12:57 am: | |
Looks like ignorance WAS bliss!
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 10:11 am: | |
Since most bus conversions do not put on 100K+ miles per year I don't see the necessity of spending the extra $$$ for the name brand tires. More times than not, on a bus conversion the tires are going to die of old age long before you wear them down to the wear bars.
All of the big name tire companies have loss leader brands that are more than adequate to meet the needs of most bus conversions. Even some of the offshore offbrands offer tires that will do the job.
We have had good luck with Cooper, Ohtsu, and Hankook tires. While at the same time we have had less than good luck with Michelin.
Go figure.
Good luck and make sure you keep the air pressure up where it is supposed to be. More tires fail from low air pressure than any other reason.
Mark O. |
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