| Author |
Message |
doctor al
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 7:46 pm: | |
Ok, I've got to know. I have been a journeyman heavy equipment and diesel mechanic for almost 30 years. In all that time on thousands of different rigs (semi's off road equipment dump trucks etc) I have yet to ever use a torque wrench on the wheels. And I have yet to have one, or hear of one, or see one fall off. Or come loose for that matter. So I want to know how many busnuts have had the wheels fall off their rigs cause they didn't use a torgue wrench? |
Chuck Lott (Chuckmc8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 8:52 pm: | |
I think that having the correct torque on wheel lugs is more than keeping the wheels from falling off. I'd never used a torque wrench on my dump truck wheels, either, and never had a problem with one coming loose.
When I first started into looking at Alcoa wheels for my bus, I checked ones in the scrap pile. Acccording to info that I'd read on the Alcoa website a few years ago,the most common cause for cracking the aluminum wheels is overtightening of the lugs.
I made the rounds at the local truck tire places, and could'nt find one who uses a torque wrench. I couldnt even fine anyone who HAD one. A guy at a truck stop was installing them with a 1" impact gun( I have one of those also) He was hammering the hell out of them. Said they have to be "real tight".
I bought a used 3/4" Snap on Torque wrench and had it professionally callibrated. Theres a photo of it being used on my bus at http://groups.msn.com/July2004Busphotos/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=72
Having the correct torque also makes the wheel/drum contact more "flat" (for lack of a better term)
Which I think, would make for a smoother braking application.
I once watched a guy build a chevy 366 dump truck engine, installed the main bearing and rod bolts with an 1/2" impact. Never put a torque wrench on anything, including the head bolts. I know for a fact that same engine is still running in that truck, and that was in "86.
It just depends on what level you want to do things "your way"
I'd guess that 99% of the big wheels out there on the road aren't properly (spec) torqued, And I know everyone dosent have access to a 3/4" torque wrench. The correct torque also helps ensure that you don'r get in a position where you cant get an overtightened lug removed. They can get tough.
I keep my Torque wrench in the bus with my bottle jack. It also makes one hell of a pullbar, and is a good loaner if another busnut should want to check their lugs.
Just my way, Chuck |
Doug wotring
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 10:30 pm: | |
lugs nuts, espeecially on alum wheels should be torqued.
I have had several non torqued lugs come loose on allum light duty truck wheels.
had a thing on the news just last noight a semi lost a wheel and it went shooting off the elevated highway into an appartment.
have seen several cars loose wheels.....due to overtightening.....
also have had a freind do a hard landing in a helicopter due to a nut that was overtorqued in a overhaul on a component. |
Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 11:24 pm: | |
I've had a stud fail on my left front wheel due to some Neanderthal know it all tightening it without a torque wrench. I've replaced all the Front studs as Mr. Neanderthal no doubt damaged more than one. Since the parts cost over $200 and I do'nt want a wheel falling off I carry a proper torque wrench Which I may have to use to beat some sense into anyone who touches my wheel nuts with a rattle gun.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120 |
John Jewett (Jayjay)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 12:03 am: | |
I had a tire shop employee strip three lug nuts with a 1" impact gun. He had no clue what a left hand thread was. Then in the process of replacing the studs another shop over tightened the wheel bearings and ruined them (inner and outer). What started out as a simple wheel balance ended up with a total outlay of almost $400.00. Most of it out of my pocket, and all because of the lack of a touque wrench. At least three shops in Ft. Myers now use torque wrenches on wheels, due to litigation from stupidity on their part. If God hadn't wanted you to use a torque wrench, Snap On wouldn't have made them. I got so tired of the situation that I bought a 1" impact gun, and a torque wrench! Cheers...JJ |
Bill Gerrie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 2:46 am: | |
We have had wheels come off at work over the years before laws came about to torque the wheel nuts. On GMC coachs the wheel nut has a cupped washer with it that if overtightened the washer can split and the nut will loosen off. For what the proper torque wrench cost it is worth it to get one. I carry one in the coach all the time. Bill |
Russ Barnes (Neoruss)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 9:34 am: | |
Just remember that the "average" torque wrench doesn't provide the 450-500 ft lbs that we need for these type wheels. And the impact won't torque it properly. My solution was to go to the "E" place and buy a used Snap-on torque multiplier for $260. It multiplies your 115 ft lbs to 460 ft lbs and you can be sure that lug nuts are tight and even. AND it's simple, rugged and will last a lifetime rolling around in my tool kit.
Not hard to use either and loosens just as well in the opposite direction. |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 10:43 am: | |
I firmly believe in torqueing the wheel nuts. In the past, I have used my weight applied at a proper distance on a 1” drive breaker bar to torque the wheels. I always felt good about that approach.
A few years ago, I bought a ¾ inch torque wrench from the E place. I quickly found out why they sold it. Every once in a while, the ratchet teeth would not engage properly. One day, the wrench slipped and I place my old bald head firmly on the truck bumper!! Had quite a knot on the old noggin.
The clicker on this torque wrench only works in one direction. I torque the one side (carefully now) and then use my “calibrated force” force from that side to torque the other side.
I still think the standing on the bar method is plenty good. The only thing you need to be concerned about is to apply your weight slowly and stand (not jump) on the bar.
One last thought, after you re-mount a wheel, it should be torqued and then re-torqued after 100 or so miles to make sure that it is fully seated.
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10
Bus Project details: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm (updated 2/17/05) |
Jim Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 11:28 am: | |
We lost a wheel on our Airstream because the studs were too tight. Aluminum expands way more than steel & if the stud is already overstretched it can snap the studs. Luckily, we were alone on the road & the tire ran out in the weeds after crossing the road. It could have killed somebody.
Of course, they broke the hub pressing new studs in & we had to store the camper 200 miles from home for a month & make another trip up there to repair & return. How much cost????
Most tire stores are now torquing car & light truck alloy wheels as standard practice.
I carry a 1" air wrench on board for REMOVAL and a big Snap On click torque wrench for tightening. I also Neversieze my studs.
Jim-Bob |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 12:12 pm: | |
Jim Bob,Doesn't that burn? |
Jim Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 1:53 pm: | |
If it burns, you're rubbing it in too much! |
bobm
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 7:24 pm: | |
I weigh just about 200 lbs so with a two foot mark on a pipe on the lug wrench and my whole weight on the pipe with just a little bounce, I have tightened the nut to 400 ft lbs. Don't need no tourque wrench just calibrate a cheater pipe according to your weight. ( before or after the all you can eat buffet) |
BrianMCI
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 12:28 am: | |
Well, using a a torque wrench does sound great and all, but I have an 1100 ft.lb. 3/4 Ingersol Rand impact that I planned on using on my lug nuts all by it's lonesome.
However, I think I might do a round of experiments with a pressure regulator and a torque wrench.
With the perfect pressure setting I'd be willing to bet I could nail the right torque number nearly every time.
Brian |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 1:04 am: | |
bobm,
I use the same system, foolproof!! |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 10:34 am: | |
After recently fighting the battle of "some ape w/a 1" I/R and 150#of air behind it" I certainly would not argue w/ using a torque wrench for "proper torque", btwn. 475 and 525 for most of our bus wheel applications. Mine are hub mount and were tightened to OVER 1500 Ft./lbs. They actually defied a 1" I/R operating on a 3/4" line and 180# of air pressure. Had to use a torque multiplier to take them off. I use a 1/2" impact that delivers 625# reverse torque @ 90# air. It delivers a rated 600# right hand torque. From Northern Tools, $100 on sale. HF has a similar one named the Earthquake ($90) and I/R has the same w/ the ThunderGun ($190 @HF).
If I hammer the nut abt. 1/2 dz. times w/ the Northern gun, I have 550 ft. lbs, using 100# air (checked w/torque wrench). I once saw a chart from IR that listed the torque of their 1" $500 impact and it was based on a well-maintained impact @ 120#, 1/2" supply, X number of impacts yielded the desired torque. Overtightning can cause real problems but under-torqueing can cause "death" from wheels that travel faster than the vehicle they came off of. |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 6:05 pm: | |
James,
Torque required to remove a nut is never the same as was used to tighten it. There is no way to measure this after the fact. I wish there were,it would make wrench jockeys a lot more responsible for their work. |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 4:58 pm: | |
I have a military surplus snap on type 3/4" torque wrench that is almost five feet long and breaks down into two pieces for storage in half that length. It is not a clicker. How do you know when a clicker is calibrated right anyway. I had a 3/8" one putting out 130% of indicated torque that broke a rod bolt on a small Yanmar diesel while tightening to exact specifications.
The 3/4" torque wrench has a 2 inch dial gauge with a rotating bezel for zeroing. Does anyone know how it actually works, inside? I suspect it is measuring air pressure.
The problem using it is that it is a two man job. You cannot read the gauge from the end of the handle. |