| Author |
Message |
john (192.9.25.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 5:28 pm: | |
Hi all,
I'm still hoping to connect with some "local" folks converting MC-9's... though I may have to expand my definition of local! Anyway, I'm about ready to do some serious shopping for an MC-9 shell, so I'm trying to prepare myself. The two things I think I need help with right now are:
1. How to do a remote evaluation of a shell so that I can figure out whether it's worth going to the site to inspect it.
2. How do I conduct an inspection to determine whether the frame is sound and (relatively) free of rust/corrosion?
I'm making the assumption that I can hire a local bus mechanic to determine the condition of the running gear if I find a bus that passes my first inspection.
So, I'd appreciate any advice along the lines of what you think are the most important things to look for, and how to best evaluate them remotely. I.e., what kinds of questions should I ask the seller?
On a side note, I have noticed a few requests from people on the various bus news groups asking for someone to go take a look at a bus for sale. Is this a reasonable request, and a favor that people in this forum are sometimes able to do if the bus is nearby? I'm not sure if it's too much to ask, but it sure would be nice, and a favor I'd gladly return (when my opinion eventually becomes worth something ;-)
Also need pointers about how to best tell, without ripping off the skin, whether or not there's significant rust/corrosion of the frame? I'm thinking that folks who have stripped an MC-9 probably know the most susceptible areas and might have an idea how to spot problems from the outside.
Thanks again for the help, information, and encouragement!
John |
Mallie (208.165.105.102)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 10:22 pm: | |
Hello John: There is a list of questions that have been compiled for just such use. I hope I am not out of line in posting the link here.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bus-converters-library-shelves/message/142
The rust is easy to inspect, and it is impossible at the same time. I will try to explain. There is not much "frame exposed, only in the wheel areas on an mc-8, so it is relatively easy to see rust, or where it has been covered up. A sharp pointed scribe is a good instrument to check for rusted through area. This is about the only place it is impractical to replace in the mci.
On the body, check under the front bumper in the spare tire compartment. Open the Radiator doors on the rear with a flat point screw driver ( quarter turn) and look at the top rear around where the bottom cap attaches. This can usually be repaired if you are replacing the cap.
Open every bay and look just inside at the top, and where the frame enters.
Look for rivets with signs of crinkled paint around them indicating rust Look down the side for sags or warps. Push on the siding is several spots under the windows, and in the front.
Now the impossible. I have never seen a bus with the interior skin removed that did not have some rust, many very severally rusted, and you could not tell it. Most common places are under the window, around escape hatch, around clearance lights etc. If you are removing the skin and foaming, it is not hard to repair minimal rust.
Good luck in your search
Mallie |
john (192.9.25.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 11:50 pm: | |
Hi Mallie,
Thanks for the pointer to the questions, and for the inspection tips. Wonder how I missed that list of questions -- I thought I'd seen everything in that library!
A couple of follow up questions if you don't mind. Your comment about finding some severe rust after removing the skin is, of course, my biggest fear! I am about to enroll in a welding course so that I can do things like raise the roof and add structural re-inforcement where necessary, and possibly do some minor rust repair, but I'm not sure about repairing a rotten frame. If I do end up with frame members that need replacement, is this a job I can expect to do myself? If not, what are my options for repairing severe rust?
In the list of questions you pointed to, one of the questions was "how much oil does it consume?". What's a good answer to this question
for an MC-9?
One of the questions is "have the air bags been changed to eliminate the air beams?" What is that question trying to uncover? Are air beams a common area to rust out? If they did rust out, is that a bad sign for the rest of the body? Do MC-9's have air beams?
Thanks again... and sorry for all the nit-picky questions. But this definitely gives me good food for thought!
John |
Mallie (208.165.105.102)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 8:44 am: | |
Hello John: Any rust that is deep on the frame is a walk a way from. Sections can be replaced, but it is not usually feasible. Surface rust is no problem, it is the rust where the member is weakened. They some times rust from the inside, that is why your should probe it with a sharp object. Any plating welded on is rust repair.
The Air beam is an enclosed portion of the frame directly above the air bag, and the frame between the two. Yes, the mc-9 has the air bags. If it has been plated off, there was a rust problem. Not always the end tho. The corrosion on the top side can be limited to that area, but it certainly means you should look closer.
Oil consumption,, When it gets to a gallon per thousand miles, it is time for an overhaul.
Mallie@Cwis.net |
madbrit (216.67.210.24)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 1:55 pm: | |
John,
to add to Mallie's great information, when it comes to rust on an MCI, also check all around the baggage doors and their mechanisms. If there is signs of rusting, and I mean more than a bit of surface rust, then start to look real close. This is where it often starts. I looked at a MCI-8 in California and when I opened the bay doors, you could hear the rust falling within the door shell as it moved. This area will surely show up what the bus has been driven in, salt, etc.
To examine the tops of the airbags where they bolt to the airbeam will reveal if they have been replaced with the sealing plate. If they have been replaced, it is not the end of the world, but it shows signs of more than a little corrosion, so be very aware of this and look very closley. Check inside the rear baggage bay, especially where the box section in the top joins the bulkhead in the rear. Look around where it tapers out and is welded to the rear bulkhead, they often crack there, this is also permissible providing it is only hairline cracks. This only needs the crack end drilled to stop it going further and welded up or at worse, reinforcing.
As stated before, open all the back of the bus up and inspect for rust up in the radiator compartments, also check the seals all around the radiators whilst you are in there. Look for cracks in the frame joints, some are permissible and probably will be fine if welded up.
If you need a recommendation on a Ca. dealer, then I would have no hesitation in recommending Dave Dorr at Hausman Bus Sales in Los Alamitos. He was very helpful and spent all day with me, checking the bus and driving it and even had it up in the air on the lift for quite a long time. Boy did I learn a lot about my bus, seeing it from that angle. |
Mark Radius (24.247.105.212)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 10:23 pm: | |
Mallie has a point, if you find clear indication of extensive rust, might better look elsewheres. But sometimes it doesn't matter how well you look, there is going to be rust you can't see until you tear into the walls. That was the surprise I ran into. But the good news is that it is all repairable, even if the original framework is gone in spots! You can purchase tubular steel locally and fabricate your own replacement frmawork, or there are several places you can purchase "OEM" replacement framework parts. I think IBP in FL even stocks stainless steel replacement frame parts! Taking a metal working and welding class is a good idea. So I agree with Mallie, do your homework, but if you find an unpleasent surprize, don't dispair. |
john (192.9.25.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 1:35 am: | |
All -- thanks very much for the very detailed pointers about where to look for telltale signs. Peter -- I'll try to reach Dave Dorr to see what he's got. I'd come across them in my searches, but can't remember if they showed any MC 9's in their inventory.
I've identified a BUNCH of MC 9's for sale, and am doing my best to pre-screen 'em via e-mail and phone. With my time-table, I can't take a long time to find THE bus, so I'm thinking my strategy is gonna be to try to find 5 or 10 decent buses I can look at within a 3-500 mile radius, then fly out, rent a car, and bring the best one home! Unfortunately, the biggest concentration seems to be on the east coast -- spanning from NJ down to the mid-atlantic -- which doesn't bode well for salt exposure.
I'll keep y'all posted.
John |
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