Air Filters

[Scott Crosby]

When I changed my oil bath air filters  someone here recommended the fram, I choose the 46440 WIX cross reference. The fram only has the wire mesh on the outside and after seeing the air filter failure that Technomadia had it seems like the air flow on that filter is designed to go the other way?  I don't know if that's true or not but the wire mesh on the clean air out side should prevent that type of failure.  Anyway the fram filter when I compared it is susceptible to a same type of failure. I have 3 and the 8v has 4 filters so the cfm per filter is much lower than just one large filter and therefore probably it's not likely for such a failure but if your using these filters why not just be cautious and use one with mesh on both sides or at least make sure it's on the clean air out side.  Again the fram is only one side and not the good side.  The wix has wire mesh on both sides.  I'm still not sure that the paper element on theirs made it through the blower wire and did damage or not but it would dust the engine by allowing non filtered air through. Periodic filter inspections other than just looking at a suction gauge would be good too.  Those suction gauges snap into each position so a sudden reduction in pressure from a filter failure would not show up ever on one of those filter life gauges.    Just my 2 cents. 

I made a nice alignment ring insert, I'll post a photo later I only have the image of the cardboard template from my first install.

[Scott Crosby]

1/4" luan plywood cut to compress over the rubber lip of the filter.  I did wrap it in gaffers tape to have it grip better.  I just pulled this filter out and as you can see its 100% perfect center Alignment. I'll miss align one and show you what I'm talking about in my next post.  Anyway these rings keep the filters perfectly centered inside the intake housing.  (They are skinnier than the oil bath but seal perfectly inside the old housings.)   5 min to make and should last forever.

[Scott Crosby]

Here I squished this one in without the ring and it misaligned about a 1/4" off center which you can see by the off center indentation.  It still would seal here but I wouldn't want to be off by more than that amount because it wouldn't seal.

[Scott Crosby]

The only difference for me was the cans latched so tight by there was a 1/8" gap so I cut a 1/2" foam seal, it's round but I fillet cut it in Half.  That squeezes into a great seal. It's on the non filtered air side but its a complete seal anyway.

The rings fit so tight it will hold the filter in place. 

[belfert]

I'm curious if anyone else has ever heard of an air filter failing on a heavy truck like the Technomad filter failing?

My bus is newer so it has a Series 60 with a factory fitted Donaldson filter.  To date I have only used Donaldson replacement filters simply because they were the best cost.

[luvrbus]

It happens Brian high humidity cut the filters life on my trucks and equipment about 1/2 the life span of my filters in dry climates and they would suck apart, that is why filter manufactures sell different grades of their filters for high humidity areas 

It's not always the case but most filters sold in your area will be for that climate

[Geoff]

Techno had a failed Baldwin PA2721.  If you go to the Baldwin website and look that filter up you with see the wire mesh through the 90 degree opening.  Remembering Techno's picture of their filter sucked out that 90 degree opening I would say the mesh is maybe missing and that the filter inlet/outlet must have been installed backwards.  The inlet side of an air filter is always the outside through the filter with the clean air coming from the inside.

--Geoff
Banned from BCM

[Technomadia]

Techno had a failed Baldwin PA2721.  If you go to the Baldwin website and look that filter up you with see the wire mesh through the 90 degree opening.  Remembering Techno's picture of their filter sucked out that 90 degree opening I would say the mesh is maybe missing and that the filter inlet/outlet must have been installed backwards.  The inlet side of an air filter is always the outside through the filter with the clean air coming from the inside.

Great point about the picture of the PA2721 on Baldwin's website - the mesh you can see through the 90-degree opening is definitely not present on our filter. Our filter has a metal mesh on the inside of the filter tube, but just orange rubber-band straps on the outside, and the straps seem to be what failed.

The Farr filter that was on the bus when we bought it, and the Wix filter we installed shortly after neither had a metal screen or a mesh of any sort on the inside or the outside - just rings or straps that appear made of a glue on both sides.

The Ecolite filters are explicitly labeled as being bi-directional - there is not a preferred direction, and it is impossible to install them "backwards".  If the Baldwin has an explicit intake side, I can not find it documented anywhere.

  - Chris

[Geoff]

Well, I've been a diesel mechanic since 1975 and I have never seen a filter that had the intake to the inside of the filter.  But what do I know?, I'm not Technodieselman.

--Geoff
Banned from BCM

Techno had a failed Baldwin PA2721.  If you go to the Baldwin website and look that filter up you with see the wire mesh through the 90 degree opening.  Remembering Techno's picture of their filter sucked out that 90 degree opening I would say the mesh is maybe missing and that the filter inlet/outlet must have been installed backwards.  The inlet side of an air filter is always the outside through the filter with the clean air coming from the inside.

Great point about the picture of the PA2721 on Baldwin's website - the mesh you can see through the 90-degree opening is definitely not present on our filter. Our filter has a metal mesh on the inside of the filter tube, but just orange rubber-band straps on the outside, and the straps seem to be what failed.

The Farr filter that was on the bus when we bought it, and the Wix filter we installed shortly after neither had a metal screen or a mesh of any sort on the inside or the outside - just rings or straps that appear made of a glue on both sides.

The Ecolite filters are explicitly labeled as being bi-directional - there is not a preferred direction, and it is impossible to install them "backwards".  If the Baldwin has an explicit intake side, I can not find it documented anywhere.

  - Chris

[Technomadia]

Well, I've been a diesel mechanic since 1975 and I have never seen a filter that had the intake to the inside of the filter. 

Being bidirectional is the chief feature of the ECOLITE-style filters.

From the Parker website:
"The original ECO Series product, the ECOLITE is still the only air filter in the industry that you can flow air in either direction. This allows a variety of installation options with the same part number replacement element. The ECOLITE can be mounted in any orientation or convenient location; under the hood or outside, direct or remote."

It seems like a fairly common style of filter too. The Baldwin is listed as a direct replacement for this.

Does anyone else use this style in their bus?

  - Chris

Edited to Add: The image is hard to read, but the label on the air filter says "Inside/Out or Outside/In Airflow"

[eagle19952]

First...many web designers use atypical photo's so the mesh may or may not be in your favor.
Further BALDWIN gives quite specific application approvals/recommendation for the PA2721....and  an 8V71 is not one of them...input PA2721 in the space when you get there...http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/startproductguide.html
I can fathom using an ECO filter IF the OEM designed the motor vehicle application with one or a specified cross reference to atleast the motor...but using one without input from the manufacturer because I can fit it in the available space makes no sense to me.
And modifying an oil bath to elements makes even less.
Spank me now...I and my PO use a K&N.

[luvrbus]

 You got Donald the Detroit's use a different design in that type Parker filter I have used the Parker for over 20 years on the 8v92 turbo engines best filter ever made for a 8v92TA IMO to let a 8v92 have the 1500 cfm it needs I don't care for all the drama but in Chris's defense he just replaced a filter the PO installed and trust me it wasn't pretty he should have done his home work to be sure a mistake on his part there is no need to blame Baldwin he will lose that one   

[Technomadia]

You got Donald the Detroit's use a different design in that type Parker filter I have used the Parker for over 20 years on the 8v92 turbo engines best filter ever made for a 8v92TA IMO to let a 8v92 have the 1500 cfm it needs I don't care for all the drama but in Chris's defense he just replaced a filter the PO installed

In 2007, you recommended an Ecolite filter as what you personally use - essentially the exact same filter we have.  The only difference is the one you recommended for the turbo has a slightly wider inlet / outlet.

See: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/17786.html

"Bob, a wix #546895 or Napa #6895 ecolite filter is what i use it comes with the housing all you need is hoses bad part it cost 125.00 every time you change the filter mine is mounted on the right hand side looking at the back of the bus because i have a rear mount turbo"

The PA2721 is well above the published recommended specs for the naturally aspirated 8V71.

I certainly wanted to replace it with a different filter setup because it was such a pain to change, but on paper it seems like the PO picked out a reasonable design.

I did my homework to confirm it was a reasonable match as best I could.  Is there any other reference on the 8V71's air needs I should have consulted anywhere?

  - Chris

[TomC]

I know Donaldson will make specific air filters to which way the air is flowing, and they are not interchangeable.  Donaldson also has a great site to help select either an air cleaner or a muffler. Good Luck, TomC

[luvrbus]

You are impossible do what ever Detroit has a manual telling you what size inlet,outlet ,allowable restrictions , heat range for air cleaners  back pressure for exhaust sizes the whole 9 balls 
 
 Since you like the internet so much I posted the publication number from Detroit years back someplace I could walk out to shop and get it for you naw I don't think so