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TOPICS => THE BOARD => Topic started by: Scott Crosby on June 30, 2013, 06:47:41 AM

Title: Air Filters
Post by: Scott Crosby on June 30, 2013, 06:47:41 AM
When I changed my oil bath air filters  someone here recommended the fram, I choose the 46440 WIX cross reference. The fram only has the wire mesh on the outside and after seeing the air filter failure that Technomadia had it seems like the air flow on that filter is designed to go the other way?  I don't know if that's true or not but the wire mesh on the clean air out side should prevent that type of failure.  Anyway the fram filter when I compared it is susceptible to a same type of failure. I have 3 and the 8v has 4 filters so the cfm per filter is much lower than just one large filter and therefore probably it's not likely for such a failure but if your using these filters why not just be cautious and use one with mesh on both sides or at least make sure it's on the clean air out side.  Again the fram is only one side and not the good side.  The wix has wire mesh on both sides.  I'm still not sure that the paper element on theirs made it through the blower wire and did damage or not but it would dust the engine by allowing non filtered air through. Periodic filter inspections other than just looking at a suction gauge would be good too.  Those suction gauges snap into each position so a sudden reduction in pressure from a filter failure would not show up ever on one of those filter life gauges.    Just my 2 cents. 

I made a nice alignment ring insert, I'll post a photo later I only have the image of the cardboard template from my first install.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/30/3e6amenu.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/30/sa3y8ugy.jpg)
Title: Air Filters
Post by: Scott Crosby on June 30, 2013, 03:45:30 PM
1/4" luan plywood cut to compress over the rubber lip of the filter.  I did wrap it in gaffers tape to have it grip better.  I just pulled this filter out and as you can see its 100% perfect center Alignment. I'll miss align one and show you what I'm talking about in my next post.  Anyway these rings keep the filters perfectly centered inside the intake housing.  (They are skinnier than the oil bath but seal perfectly inside the old housings.)   5 min to make and should last forever.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/01/jezatura.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/01/y5y5u5es.jpg)
Title: Air Filters
Post by: Scott Crosby on June 30, 2013, 03:54:09 PM
Here I squished this one in without the ring and it misaligned about a 1/4" off center which you can see by the off center indentation.  It still would seal here but I wouldn't want to be off by more than that amount because it wouldn't seal.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/01/9epeteze.jpg)
Title: Air Filters
Post by: Scott Crosby on July 01, 2013, 11:05:00 AM
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/01/yqazaser.jpg)

The only difference for me was the cans latched so tight by there was a 1/8" gap so I cut a 1/2" foam seal, it's round but I fillet cut it in Half.  That squeezes into a great seal. It's on the non filtered air side but its a complete seal anyway.

The rings fit so tight it will hold the filter in place. 

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/01/y4ypugaj.jpg)
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: belfert on July 01, 2013, 02:55:39 PM
I'm curious if anyone else has ever heard of an air filter failing on a heavy truck like the Technomad filter failing?

My bus is newer so it has a Series 60 with a factory fitted Donaldson filter.  To date I have only used Donaldson replacement filters simply because they were the best cost.
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 01, 2013, 03:05:56 PM
It happens Brian high humidity cut the filters life on my trucks and equipment about 1/2 the life span of my filters in dry climates and they would suck apart, that is why filter manufactures sell different grades of their filters for high humidity areas 

It's not always the case but most filters sold in your area will be for that climate
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Geoff on July 01, 2013, 04:34:59 PM
Techno had a failed Baldwin PA2721.  If you go to the Baldwin website and look that filter up you with see the wire mesh through the 90 degree opening.  Remembering Techno's picture of their filter sucked out that 90 degree opening I would say the mesh is maybe missing and that the filter inlet/outlet must have been installed backwards.  The inlet side of an air filter is always the outside through the filter with the clean air coming from the inside.

--Geoff
Banned from BCM
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Technomadia on July 01, 2013, 06:57:50 PM
Quote from: Geoff on July 01, 2013, 04:34:59 PM
Techno had a failed Baldwin PA2721.  If you go to the Baldwin website and look that filter up you with see the wire mesh through the 90 degree opening.  Remembering Techno's picture of their filter sucked out that 90 degree opening I would say the mesh is maybe missing and that the filter inlet/outlet must have been installed backwards.  The inlet side of an air filter is always the outside through the filter with the clean air coming from the inside.

Great point about the picture of the PA2721 on Baldwin's website - the mesh you can see through the 90-degree opening is definitely not present on our filter. Our filter has a metal mesh on the inside of the filter tube, but just orange rubber-band straps on the outside, and the straps seem to be what failed.

The Farr filter that was on the bus when we bought it, and the Wix filter we installed shortly after neither had a metal screen or a mesh of any sort on the inside or the outside - just rings or straps that appear made of a glue on both sides.

The Ecolite filters are explicitly labeled as being bi-directional - there is not a preferred direction, and it is impossible to install them "backwards".  If the Baldwin has an explicit intake side, I can not find it documented anywhere.

  - Chris
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Geoff on July 01, 2013, 08:05:43 PM
Well, I've been a diesel mechanic since 1975 and I have never seen a filter that had the intake to the inside of the filter.  But what do I know?, I'm not Technodieselman.

--Geoff
Banned from BCM



Quote from: Technomadia on July 01, 2013, 06:57:50 PM
Quote from: Geoff on July 01, 2013, 04:34:59 PM
Techno had a failed Baldwin PA2721.  If you go to the Baldwin website and look that filter up you with see the wire mesh through the 90 degree opening.  Remembering Techno's picture of their filter sucked out that 90 degree opening I would say the mesh is maybe missing and that the filter inlet/outlet must have been installed backwards.  The inlet side of an air filter is always the outside through the filter with the clean air coming from the inside.

Great point about the picture of the PA2721 on Baldwin's website - the mesh you can see through the 90-degree opening is definitely not present on our filter. Our filter has a metal mesh on the inside of the filter tube, but just orange rubber-band straps on the outside, and the straps seem to be what failed.

The Farr filter that was on the bus when we bought it, and the Wix filter we installed shortly after neither had a metal screen or a mesh of any sort on the inside or the outside - just rings or straps that appear made of a glue on both sides.

The Ecolite filters are explicitly labeled as being bi-directional - there is not a preferred direction, and it is impossible to install them "backwards".  If the Baldwin has an explicit intake side, I can not find it documented anywhere.

  - Chris
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Technomadia on July 01, 2013, 08:41:45 PM
Quote from: Geoff on July 01, 2013, 08:05:43 PM
Well, I've been a diesel mechanic since 1975 and I have never seen a filter that had the intake to the inside of the filter. 

Being bidirectional is the chief feature of the ECOLITE-style filters.

From the Parker website:
"The original ECO Series product, the ECOLITE is still the only air filter in the industry that you can flow air in either direction. This allows a variety of installation options with the same part number replacement element. The ECOLITE can be mounted in any orientation or convenient location; under the hood or outside, direct or remote."

It seems like a fairly common style of filter too. The Baldwin is listed as a direct replacement for this.

Does anyone else use this style in their bus?

  - Chris

Edited to Add: The image is hard to read, but the label on the air filter says "Inside/Out or Outside/In Airflow"
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: eagle19952 on July 01, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
First...many web designers use atypical photo's so the mesh may or may not be in your favor.
Further BALDWIN gives quite specific application approvals/recommendation for the PA2721....and  an 8V71 is not one of them...input PA2721 in the space when you get there...http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/startproductguide.html (http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/startproductguide.html)
I can fathom using an ECO filter IF the OEM designed the motor vehicle application with one or a specified cross reference to atleast the motor...but using one without input from the manufacturer because I can fit it in the available space makes no sense to me.
And modifying an oil bath to elements makes even less.
Spank me now...I and my PO use a K&N.

Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 01, 2013, 11:07:07 PM
 You got Donald the Detroit's use a different design in that type Parker filter I have used the Parker for over 20 years on the 8v92 turbo engines best filter ever made for a 8v92TA IMO to let a 8v92 have the 1500 cfm it needs I don't care for all the drama but in Chris's defense he just replaced a filter the PO installed and trust me it wasn't pretty he should have done his home work to be sure a mistake on his part there is no need to blame Baldwin he will lose that one   
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Technomadia on July 02, 2013, 12:23:25 AM
Quote from: luvrbus on July 01, 2013, 11:07:07 PM
You got Donald the Detroit's use a different design in that type Parker filter I have used the Parker for over 20 years on the 8v92 turbo engines best filter ever made for a 8v92TA IMO to let a 8v92 have the 1500 cfm it needs I don't care for all the drama but in Chris's defense he just replaced a filter the PO installed

In 2007, you recommended an Ecolite filter as what you personally use - essentially the exact same filter we have.  The only difference is the one you recommended for the turbo has a slightly wider inlet / outlet.

See: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/17786.html

"Bob, a wix #546895 or Napa #6895 ecolite filter is what i use it comes with the housing all you need is hoses bad part it cost 125.00 every time you change the filter mine is mounted on the right hand side looking at the back of the bus because i have a rear mount turbo"

The PA2721 is well above the published recommended specs for the naturally aspirated 8V71.

I certainly wanted to replace it with a different filter setup because it was such a pain to change, but on paper it seems like the PO picked out a reasonable design.

I did my homework to confirm it was a reasonable match as best I could.  Is there any other reference on the 8V71's air needs I should have consulted anywhere?

  - Chris
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: TomC on July 02, 2013, 12:51:39 AM
I know Donaldson will make specific air filters to which way the air is flowing, and they are not interchangeable.  Donaldson also has a great site to help select either an air cleaner or a muffler. Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 02, 2013, 08:39:13 AM
You are impossible do what ever Detroit has a manual telling you what size inlet,outlet ,allowable restrictions , heat range for air cleaners  back pressure for exhaust sizes the whole 9 balls 
 
 Since you like the internet so much I posted the publication number from Detroit years back someplace I could walk out to shop and get it for you naw I don't think so
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: eagle19952 on July 02, 2013, 08:46:00 AM
Quote from: Technomadia on July 02, 2013, 12:23:25 AM
Quote from: luvrbus on July 01, 2013, 11:07:07 PM
in Chris's defense he just replaced a filter the PO installed

Quote
In 2007, you recommended an Ecolite filter as what you personally use - essentially the exact same filter we have.  The only difference is the one you recommended for the turbo has a slightly wider inlet / outlet.[/
color]


No... the one recommended crosses to the PA2723:which is a significantly larger diameter than the PA2721
Descriptions:  PA2723 Replacement for Ecolite Air Element in Disposable Housing 
Fits:  Farr Optional Filter Housings 
Replaces:  Farr C62891-3 Series 
O.D.:  13 17/32 (343.7) 
Inlet:  7 
Outlet:  7 
Length:  25 7/8 (657.2)   UPC:  791440022102 


PA2721 SPECS
Descriptions:  PA2721 Replacement for Ecolite Air Element in Disposable Housing 
Fits:  Farr Optional Filter Housings 
Replaces:  Farr C62891-1 Series 
O.D.:  9 25/32 (248.4) 
Inlet:  6 
Outlet:  6 
Length:  25 7/8 (657.2)   
UPC:  791440022089 
Without a complete understanding of cross sectional area...the differences in diameter of the element and the inlet/outlet may seem equally able. But they are not.





See: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/17786.html (http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/17786.html)

"Bob, a wix #546895 or Napa #6895 ecolite filter is what i use it comes with the housing all you need is hoses bad part it cost 125.00 every time you change the filter mine is mounted on the right hand side looking at the back of the bus because i have a rear mount turbo"

Quote
The PA2721 is well above the published recommended specs for the naturally aspirated 8V71. BY appearance only, we have not considered the filter medium at a minimum nor any of the unpublished criteria, further (again) the PA2721 has never been listed as suitable by Baldwin on their website, you seem bent on ignoring that or me....


I certainly wanted to replace it with a different filter setup because it was such a pain to change, but on paper it seems like the PO picked out a reasonable design.

I did my homework to confirm it was a reasonable match as best I could.  Is there any other reference on the 8V71's air needs I should have consulted anywhere?

  - Chris
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: eagle19952 on July 02, 2013, 08:53:35 AM
I certainly wanted to replace it with a different filter setup because it was such a pain to change, but on paper it seems like the PO picked out a reasonable design.
Quote

Here's a suggestion....call Donaldson and do it correctly now.
And please report back your outcome.
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: DadsHelper on July 02, 2013, 09:43:28 AM
Just in case it's helpful, we have a brand new Donaldson SMP18 1001 Air Filter, in it's original package.  Specs listed below. Message me if interested.
Filter Type: Air Elements (Type 2)
Length: 14.000 OD: 15.800 ID: 7.690
Cross reference: Fluitek A 158140-C4
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Technomadia on July 02, 2013, 12:59:39 PM
I really am trying to find some sort of documentation specifying the air filtration requirements for our engine.  From everything I have been able to find, the filter that came with our bus was a suitable size, and was installed in an allowable direction.

Working through the Donaldson Engine Intake Systems Guide, the Engine Air Consumption Guide reference shows 954cfm as the recommended airflow for an 8V-71, and 1240cfm for an 8V-71TA.

Looking through suggested filters - the Donaldson P537447 comes up as suitable for 1000cfm usage, and the P537449 comes up as recommended for 1500cfm usage. 

Right in the Donaldson guide, the Wix Ecolite filter Luvrbus recommended for the 8V-71TA is listed as a competitive cross reference for the P537449, and the Baldwin PA2721 that failed on us is listed as a competitive cross reference for the P537447.

So as best I can understand it, according to Donaldson, our filter was actually a recommended match.

Here is the Donaldson guide:
  http://india.donaldson.com/en/engine/support/datalibrary/061238.pdf

If there is something I am missing, let me know. As best as I can tell, the PO didn't make an unreasonable choice in air filter.

Regardless - now that our engine is being redone, I plan to change both the filter and the mounting location.  And if there are other suggestions and recommendations for how to set up air filtration in a 4106 with an 8V71, I am all ears.

   - Chris
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: eagle19952 on July 02, 2013, 01:39:46 PM
Again and possibly for the last time... ;D, More is better....
there is no such thing as two much air....
The Baldwin that you use may cross...BUT it does not specify.
And although it crosses...it does not specify conditions.
Heat hot dust severe duty off road on road stationary (enclosed and open air) etc. and a laundry list of multitudes that we as certified/experienced/knowledgeable and or helpful peanut eaters...may be called to task....
So again were I you....I would call Donaldson, and ask...
barring that IMEMYSELF...would find the largest conventionally serviceable metal or ABS new wave Donaldson  atypical to OEM  that I could fit with the least amount of calculable restriction that my money could buy...and my new engine would thank me for.
This from a guy who would not have kind mutterings for the person who sent the OEM oil bath to element heaven....
Pray tell, what does iState suggest ?
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 02, 2013, 01:54:42 PM
More to it than just CFM it takes inches of water to pull the CFM and Detroit has specs for that
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Technomadia on July 02, 2013, 03:10:17 PM
Quote from: luvrbus on July 02, 2013, 01:54:42 PM
More to it than just CFM it takes inches of water to pull the CFM and Detroit has specs for that

Referring to my 8V71 book - the "Air Intake Restriction - Inches Water" table gives this info:
  Maximum - Dirty Air Cleaner -- 1200rpm, 12.4"   2100rpm, 30"
  Maximum - Clean Air Cleaner -- 1200rpm, 9.0"    2100rpm, 18"

Looking at the Donaldson book - both of the filters we are talking about here (the one you once recommended, and the one that failed on us) are rated at 5" H20, and Donaldson recommends using the lowest restriction available for longer service life.  The 5" restriction is indeed the lowest available of this style of filter.

Everything I can find in both the Donaldson book and the Detroit book I have seems to indicate that the filter is a fit.

If there is something I am missing, please let me know - and educate everyone else here too.  Other than "there is no such thing as too much air", how should someone determine whether or not a given filter is suitable? I've been through the full Donaldson selection guide, and I'd really like to know what I might have missed - and what the PO got wrong.

  - Chris
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 02, 2013, 08:27:11 PM
What is the date on the filters they are like tires they have a life 3 yshelf ears max for Donaldson that is the reason I pass on super deals on a ECO a guy offered me a pickup load from Country Coach still in the boxes for 20 bucks each they were 5 years old so I passed 

He sold every one of those at Quartszite for 60 bucks ea to people that thought they were getting a good deal

 Donald all the talk about oil vs paper I dug my Detroit supplemental  book out on testing and sizing of paper against oil baths both were the Donaldson brands it shows the oil bath is 92.6% effective 98.8% for the single paper filter 100% for the double (inner and outer) paper filter, the chemical treated single paper filters were 99.7% both Farr and Donaldson

good luck 
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: eagle19952 on July 02, 2013, 10:38:10 PM
Clifford, I get the part about double paper elements being better than oil bath....my comment was directed towards ....oil bath being better suited than the PA2721 that supposedly contributed to the death of the before mentioned 8v71.and I fully understand inches of water column....and manometers...but did not want to further confuse or confound....
PS I have not maintained it but once held Guild status...still got the patch...coveralls don't fit antymore. Suppose I ought to post a picture....no.

Chrisnomadia, my comment to you about more is better relates to the same...I think the diameter of it is significantly smaller than any I have ever seen on any size Detroit except possibly the 8.2 liter...
and my comment to refer your dilemma to Donaldson stands.

You can put your eggs in any basket you want...I may not be as eloquent as others but I have nursed fleets of Detroits since 1972...
Starting with the US Army 2nd Armor Division mos. 91H40 and 63H30 on to Depot Maintenance level 4 .....
Duties performed by Soldiers in this MOS include:

Performs repair of gas turbine power plants/packs, diesel power plants/packs, compression ignition engine fuel systems, compression ignition air induction systems, vehicle air cooling systems, vehicle liquid cooling systems, track hull electrical systems, automatic transmission assemblies, track vehicle cross drive transmission assemblies, transfer assemblies, hydraulic brake systems, mechanical/hydraulic steering systems, track vehicle hydraulic assemblies, fire extinguisher/suppression systems. Repair track vehicle using battlefield damage assessment and repair.

Supervises lower grade soldiers and provides technical guidance to the soldiers in the accomplishment of their duties.
and later an intern apprenticeship with Evans Engine in Seattle and Anchorage AK and that was all prior to 1976.
were I you I would defer to others.
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: eagle19952 on July 02, 2013, 10:43:27 PM
PS.
I admit some of my knowledge is not current, but one thing I would check further...confirm that DD's spec is not written in inches of mercury vs. Donaldson's inches of water....just sayin...call them.
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 02, 2013, 11:01:31 PM
Donald we will never know what caused that but the air cleaner theory I don't buy , looking at the liners makes for more doubt for me I have been around 2 strokes since 1960 and dug a lot of crap out from one including air filters

That blower would have been in pieces no mention of that or the screen underneath 

 The DD spec is water the air box pressure is mercury 

good luck

 
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: belfert on July 02, 2013, 11:16:34 PM
Quote from: luvrbus on July 01, 2013, 03:05:56 PM
It happens Brian high humidity cut the filters life on my trucks and equipment about 1/2 the life span of my filters in dry climates and they would suck apart, that is why filter manufactures sell different grades of their filters for high humidity areas 

It's not always the case but most filters sold in your area will be for that climate

This is the first I ever heard of different filters for different climates.  I think there is only one replacement part number for the filter listed on the housing.  I bought the first filter at a Detroit Diesel dealer in Ohio, and the second filter I bought cheap off Ebay based on the part number.

I'll do some more research on filters the next time I need one in a year or two.  When I changed mine it had a thin layer of mud on the intake side.  I'm sure the desert dust got damp and turned to mud inside the filter.
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 02, 2013, 11:38:37 PM
Yep some buses have a moisture skimmer to go along with the filter I always used a moisture skimmer with mine 
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: foohorse on July 03, 2013, 04:39:14 AM
After all this I will live with my 7% less efficient oil bath air cleaner.



Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Scott Crosby on July 03, 2013, 05:52:55 AM
7% improvement?  I think there is some more math that needs to be done. 

It's not the amount that gets caught, it's the amount that gets through. 

98.8 % = 1.2 single paper
92.6 % = 7.4 oil bath

7.4 / 1.2 = 617%

And wouldn't the engine wear that 600% more dirt cause be at an exponentially accumulative rate? 

Hospital quality oil bath air filters....  Thats not a phrase I've ever heard. 

Maybe my math is wrong... But way more dirt gets through.



Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Scott Crosby on July 03, 2013, 06:14:00 AM
There is a semi truck salvage yard I go to.  They have hundreds of air filter setups and items there are pennies on the dollar vs new.  With some good measurements and a tape measure I would think a place like that you could find something for under $100. 
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: foohorse on July 03, 2013, 08:05:34 AM
Never was that good at math and I pulled that 7% less efficient number from one post on this thread. But another reason I won't change to a paper filter that can be swallowed by my engine and in the process destroy it is that GM designed it and 8v-71s have lasted for over a million miles with the oil bath. So for me that works, besides there are many more  ereas needing my attention and $$$ other than my attempting to improve GM's design in order to achive what getting 1, 000, 000.00 plus whatever the math miles before another rebuild? I don't want to wait that long because  I would most likely will no longer be needing the bus . But if I haven't moved on to my non corporeal existence. I would enjoy rebuilding that big weed eater ;D this is for me, but I Do understand how this won't work for you fellow bus brother Scott with the gleaming spotless white engine and undercarriage that gets waxed to improver airflow.  Sent with much love and respect and looking forward to a bus date as well. :)
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 03, 2013, 08:28:42 AM
Hey guys a oil sample every 10,000 miles with one of you using paper and the other using a oil bath in the same conditions that will give you the answer which is best that's the DD way
Title: Air Filters
Post by: Scott Crosby on July 03, 2013, 11:10:35 AM
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/03/rypu7equ.jpg)

They had a bazillion. These were just the pretty ones.  All shapes and sizes
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: eagle19952 on July 03, 2013, 11:24:19 AM
I like those two big assed one on the middle right....
it seems like all  the right stuff has been said in different ways...
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: belfert on July 03, 2013, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: luvrbus on July 02, 2013, 11:38:37 PM
Yep some buses have a moisture skimmer to go along with the filter I always used a moisture skimmer with mine

I have a very large device from Donaldson in front of the air cleaner that is supposed to remove moisture.  It is probably more designed to keep rain out than to eliminate humidity.
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: pd41044039 on July 03, 2013, 05:17:26 PM
"What is the date on the filters they are like tires they have a life 3 yshelf ears max for Donaldson that is the reason I pass on super deals on a ECO a guy offered me a pickup load from Country Coach still in the boxes for 20 bucks each they were 5 years old so I passed. "

Are you saying that the elements have to be changed if they are close to 3 yeas old even if they have 20 miles on them????
Another argument for oil bath.  The paper filters in my '04 are at least 20 years old.  Guess I gotta go see if they are even still in there.  (I clean 'em but don't drive many miles.)

Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 03, 2013, 05:33:53 PM
I am just telling you check the manufacture dates all filters have a shelf life Donaldson say 3 years and no warranty if not installed within 2 years prior to warranty claim it's on their web page and you can read it for yourself, that date on one is not for nothing 

 Oil bath filters need service at least 1 a year if used or not so says the DD book  fwiw they can get nasty from setting
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Technomadia on July 03, 2013, 07:52:28 PM
Quote from: luvrbus on July 02, 2013, 08:27:11 PM
What is the date on the filters they are like tires they have a life 3 yshelf ears max for Donaldson

Great tip - I never knew that air filters had a shelf life.

I tracked down Baldwin's serial number decoder, and our filter was manufactured Oct 2011, less than a year before it was installed.

I will definitely keep age in mind though for future filter purchases.

Thanks,

  - Chris
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: eagle19952 on July 03, 2013, 10:38:10 PM
pray tell for the benefit of all and me....where is this serial  :) ;) :)
# decoder...
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Technomadia on July 03, 2013, 11:24:22 PM
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 03, 2013, 10:38:10 PM
pray tell for the benefit of all and me....where is this serial  :) ;) :)
# decoder...

We had to download their very long PDF catalogue.. and it was in the back of that.
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Scott Crosby on July 04, 2013, 11:13:33 AM
The shelf life is only for their warranty.  It can't be because it will degrade just sitting there.  If its that fragile that a few years of doing nothing hurts it, then it's way to fragile to be in the engine doing its job.  Most warranty's are a scam anyway, pro-rated, only for filter replacement cost only, that kinda junk. If theirs is some kind of protection and includeds an engine liability or engine repair and or replacement due to manufacture defect that led to failure that would be a nice selling point, but my guess 99 of 100 claims would get rejected due to mass amounts of fine print like not installed by a licensed and authorized dealer, improper use, or something crazy.  So do they have some amazing warranty with little to no fine print?
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: Scott Crosby on July 04, 2013, 11:23:10 AM
Air and Liquid Filters.  1 year from in-service date or until first cleaned or serviced in any manner

Does serviced in any manner mean just opening the housing for a visual inspection of blockage?  That's from Donaldsons.  Does anyone actually know a person that got some major repairs paid for by a filter company?   
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 04, 2013, 11:30:59 AM
I just read the warranty papers than come with a Donaldson paper filter they do have a shelf life because of being chemical treated

 I am not a internet person but I can read when it is in black and white and at my age I can even do that without glasses
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: robertglines1 on July 04, 2013, 12:35:12 PM
luvrbus? did you  or did you not own over 100 pieces of construction in your life time? I myself only owned around 20 and took care of thousands. I'm really new to this computer stuff! Learned real quick there were no short cuts to maintenance. The Air Filter Question size for a change size plus 20% to allow for bends and restrictions. So you need 900 go for 1200 to be safe.        Why take a chance for a few bucks?   Ever seem a Earthmover on a dirt job in a cloud of dust?   FWIW  Bob
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: luvrbus on July 04, 2013, 12:40:58 PM
Like you I have own a bunch of equipment and not one engine ever lost from a air filter or brands of oil I had a Cat 140 motor grader the engine finally blew up at 23,000 hrs and that is a lot of miles lol
Title: Re: Air Filters
Post by: pd41044039 on July 04, 2013, 11:18:37 PM
Luvrbus, I sure am not knocking you about the filter life.  I just had no idea. 
I learn somthing every day unless I am careful.  LOL
Thanks for the info.