BNO BBS - BNO's Bulletin Board System
TOPICS => THE BOARD => Topic started by: Brandon on July 12, 2013, 02:08:28 PM
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Hello all,
I recently noted on another thread that I had purchased one of the recently released Hybrid Magnum true-sine inverter-chargers.
I am working on a more formal review to throw up on my wordpress (with photos, etc.) but I wanted to make some notes here for folks.
My test setup:
- 160A/hr 24V SLA pack (12 cells, series connected). Older pack, but good for testing.
- MSH4024M Magnum Inverter Charger - Includes Batt Temp Sensor
- ME-ARC50 Remote Control
- 2/0 Cables (24" long) directly to pack
- 300A Blue-Sea Class-T fuse (slow blow)
- Input - 15A standard plug
- Output - 10awg to duplex 20A capable outlet
- Loads - Air Compressor (16A full load) / Mach1 Air Conditioner (x2) at 8A high w/ compressor on
I have performed some initial testing just to see how the load support function works and how the unit handles starting large inrush loads.
I set the AC input current limit at it's minimum (5A), connected the AC units up. I started one AC, placed fan on high, and let the compressor run. This was showing load support off the batteries with varying current depending upon compressor load from the AC. I then started the second AC unit (successfully), showing a much larger load support function taking place. My goal was to be able to kick one air-conditioner on while the other was running (the reason for the 4kW inverter with large overhead). This setup worked well and the inverter did a good job of not drawing more than 5A from the outlet.
My next setup was similar, however I disconnected the wall outlet all together. The unit powered, and started, both AC units with no issues. Large currents were drawn off the 24V pack (as you would expect). I haven't broken out the current sampling equipment and proper voltage readings to determine efficiency at this time. Upon completing this test, I left both AC units online and connected in the AC power in. It started the qualifying process (waiting for AC good) and I was curious to see how it handled getting the inverter output phase to match the AC mains phase (due to possible drift). What they do, which may be good or bad for your situation, is that they switch over to full AC (non inverting) the whole output load (regardless of AC input limit setting) briefly (2-3 seconds) before switching to load support mode and enabling the maximum AC in setting. I presume this is to allow the inverter to 'restart' and lock onto the mains input.
The only place I could see this getting you in trouble is if you had a SMALL generator, loads larger than it's possible output and noticed your power was getting low on your batteries. You then fire off your generator, the inverter qualifies the AC, then transfers the entire output load to the generator (presumably overloading it) and then dropping the generator. Obviously the loads could be removed, generator fired up, qualified, then bring the loads on to use the Load Support function. The small generator load issue is not a significant one for me because I have intelligent circuitry to drop the air-conditioners offline when making the transfer and honestly keeping the AC's on while firing off my manual generator is not a big deal. My main power source is high current DC charging off of a small engine.
The transfer between MAINS only and load support with MAINS is VERY smooth (compressors/AC/etc did not mind or notice the transfer).
I am fairly impressed with this unit. I have many reasons for selecting this unit which I will list below
- 24V Battery Bank with Two full size Air Conditioners and Microwave/Coffee Machine
- Small Deployable Generator (900W or 2000W) usually if off-grid
- 24VDC Propane Powered on-board Generator
- Large starting current loads that would overload a 15A outlet/cord
- Loads that are sensitive to transfer time
- Need advanced functions (limit AC in, time functions, etc.)
- Need True-Sine
The internal fan only came on after some time running on inverter only (both AC units). It was soft start and very quiet (almost didn't notice it). The unit also generates a small amount of heat/noise when heavily charging the batteries from AC mains.
Overall I am VERY happy with this unit and expect it will suit my needs well. I run a lot of art/music/etc. event infrastructure out of my TDH-4512 so having a solid source of AC power regardless of what the AC mains available are doing is important to me. I have 500W of solar on the roof to augment my off-grid adventures and keep things topped up when parked in the driveway.
My eventual goal, when parked in the slot at home, is to be able to use the inverter to power my shop equipment/lighting (put my solar to use). That is a stretch goal right now.
I paid a little over $1700 for this unit (new) and bought the remote control off a random online website (with decent reviews). I may or may not obtain the battery monitoring accessory for this unit. I run a microcontroller (raspberry pi/arduino) for the environment controls (AC/heat/etc.) so tying this into the DC battery monitoring system will be fairly easy. I do have an older Xantrex Battery Monitor (XBM) with the shunt so I will likely use that for 'visual' data and battery capacity measurement.
Feel free to ask questions and I will do my best to answer. I run the laboratory for a electrical engineering company specializing in LED lighting controls. I have a great deal of experience in DC power systems (automotive/marine).
I will report back with more information as I have it and a link to the full review when complete!
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Great review - and it looks like an awesome piece of equipment.
One thing that particularly impresses me is that you can set the input current limit to as low as 5A. The Victron data sheet claimed 8A, but I discovered they had changed the spec and the minimum was actually set to 15A.
Cheers!
- Chris
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Great review - and it looks like an awesome piece of equipment.
One thing that particularly impresses me is that you can set the input current limit to as low as 5A. The Victron data sheet claimed 8A, but I discovered they had changed the spec and the minimum was actually set to 15A.
Cheers!
- Chris
Thanks for the notes Chris! 15A isn't low enough to support a 'small' generator or even a marginal long run of an extension cord. The 5A limit seems low enough for me!
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Brandon, I to have been looking at the new magnum hybred inverters. Specifically the MSH3012. Reviews all look fairly good. Love the load support feature especially. Where did find one for just over $1700?. Best price I've seen is $2300. Ken.
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Brandon, I to have been looking at the new magnum hybred inverters. Specifically the MSH3012. Reviews all look fairly good. Love the load support feature especially. Where did find one for just over $1700?. Best price I've seen is $2300. Ken.
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http://www.thehousewaresstore.com/sw-magnmsh4024m.html
I suspect some fluke deal and I cannot imagine they will last long at that price point.
I was suspicious of the validity of the sale so was VERY careful paying. I was pleasantly surprised to see the 63 pound manufacturer box show up!
Do some heavy duty hunting for a price but as always, be careful...often the deal is too good to be true.
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Does this inverter have a dual pole transfer switch that can handle both legs of a 50 amp feed? It would be nice not to have to pick and choose what runs through the inverter like I do now.
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Does this inverter have a dual pole transfer switch that can handle both legs of a 50 amp feed? It would be nice not to have to pick and choose what runs through the inverter like I do now.
Specifications:
http://www.magnumenergy.com/Literature/Data%20Sheets/Inverters/64-0497%20Rev%20B%20(MSH-M%20Series%20Data%20Sheet).pdf
Manual:
http://www.magnumenergy.com/Literature/Manuals/Inverters/64-0058%20Rev%20A%20(MSH-M%20Series)_Web.pdf
They circuit protecet the input at 60A and show (in the manual) two DPDT relays, one handling the HOT, one handling the NEUTRAL. They have two wires coming off these junction points (although appear to tie together and are only doubled for current carrying capacity). If you are looking to supply (and use) 50A 120V you should be good. If you are looking to supply 50A 240V, I suspect this will not suffice.
They also have the other MSH model for home applications that has two AC inputs.
Cheers,
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Sorry if I skipped a few threads here, but the TRACE SW series has been around for years and does the same thing. I have a Trace SW2512MC ans it has worked flawlesly for the 10-12 years.
--Geof
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Sorry if I skipped a few threads here, but the TRACE SW series has been around for years and does the same thing. I have a Trace SW2512MC ans it has worked flawlesly for the 10-12 years.
--Geof
but I seem to remember the SW2512MC is no longer made. Mine lasted 18 years. I am not as happy with my Xantrex 3500marine.
I will consider Magnum if a need arises.The Xantrex will not run my microwave....works well for all the other loads the SW handled.
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If we had a 12 volt inverter Freedom 20 that was shot when we got the coach, could we now switch to 24 volt or would we have to change appliances also? DC for refrig, water pump 12 volt, water heater start, stove lighter, etc.
That part confuses me.
Dave5Cs
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Sorry if I skipped a few threads here, but the TRACE SW series has been around for years and does the same thing. I have a Trace SW2512MC ans it has worked flawlesly for the 10-12 years.
The Trace inverters that boost are classics, and despite a few limitations (like tripping GFCI outlets) they have a well earned reputation - and used ones hold their value on ebay.
But... They haven't been manufactured (or supported) in nearly a decade (longer?). Certainly not since Xantrex bought Trace and discontinued the line.
It is great to see other inverters at last continuing the legacy.
- Chris
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.The Xantrex will not run my microwave....works well for all the other loads the SW handled.
A new microwave is only $100 or so.
Tag sale $15 or $20.......
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I like the fact that it can run two air conditioners at once, that is a huge advantage.
Brian
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The Magnum will be the same technology as Trace all those guys worked for Trace before, it should be a good inverter they spent a lot of time before releasing it for sale
I tried to buy one 4 years ago and the guy kept telling me next month and next month never came till now
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.The Xantrex will not run my microwave....works well for all the other loads the SW handled.
A new microwave is only $100 or so.
Tag sale $15 or $20.......
Mine is a SHARP Microwave/Convection oven, they don't come up often at tag sales.... :)
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Not for 15 or 20 bucks for sure
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If we had a 12 volt inverter Freedom 20 that was shot when we got the coach, could we now switch to 24 volt or would we have to change appliances also? DC for refrig, water pump 12 volt, water heater start, stove lighter, etc.
That part confuses me.
Dave5Cs
Dave,
Your inverter is only powering your AC needs. So if you have a 24v battery bank, you can switch over to a 24v inverter without changing any appliances. All of your 12v appliances I would assume are run off of a equalizer if you have a 24v system. If you do have a 24v bank for your house systems, I would prefer a 24v inverter.
Good luck
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Switched over today to my on-coach battery bank (slowly growing) powered only by the 500W solar array on the roof.
Solar powered air conditioning while working. Not bad!
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Gary thank you was thinking backwards for some reason or wasn't thinking at all. I have 4, 6 volt US Batteries wired in series and parallel. 232 AH on 20 rated. Should I get 4 more for this Inverter?
Dave5Cs
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You size your battery bank for your intended normal load. That inverter gives you a wide window of possible loads so you could need to size the battery bank higher than four 6 volts. You won't run your AC's long on that size of a battery bank, but that's what I have and I've run one AC for a half hour at lunch.
Brian
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You size your battery bank for your intended normal load. That inverter gives you a wide window of possible loads so you could need to size the battery bank higher than four 6 volts. You won't run your AC's long on that size of a battery bank, but that's what I have and I've run one AC for a half hour at lunch.
A huge draw down rate will compromise battery life a lot.
If air cond will be attempted , even for 1/2 hour batteries better than simple lead acid should be chosen AGM or ???
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For reference I am using 320A/hr at 24V of AGM batteries. Two groups of 12 cells in series, in parallel.
The draw from the batteries without the solar support is about 42-45A in 90F ambient (running one air conditioner with compressor). I saw this kick up to about 52A with the fan on high, compressor running. With the solar kicking in there is a about 28-30A draw from the batteries.
I installed a XBM (early version Xantrex Battery Monitor) with the in-line shunt. It is currently calibrating itself (based on battery full charge). I was curious if anyone has ever tried connecting the Magnum inverters to a XBM battery monitor....built by the same folks, but maybe a stretch to think it would talk over the bus? I cannot find any standards about what the bus is actually talking.
I was running two air conditioners and a 10A vacuum last night cleaning the inside of the bus. That will give the solar something to recharge today :-)
So far VERY happy with this inverter. I did find that bumping my VAC cutout up to 100V caused some false drops when starting big loads...I suspect the load support feature has a bit of lag and it kicked the volts down low enough (running on a 12awg 100ft cord). I placed it back to the factory 90V and it's been working well since.
My long term goal is to trade my AGM's out for LiFePO4 cells with about 500Ahrs+ of storage. These current batteries were free and came with all the linking bars/cables/bolts/etc. and being high end cells I figured they might have a little life left in them.
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Based on your reviews and seeing the price point I just ordered the magnum MS4024PAE from the same source. Looking on setting up a 110/220 system for my conversion. Now to buy the controller/ gen start/ and battery monitor for the rest of the system.
babell2
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Brandon,
Can you comment on how easy it is to choose the shore amp draw limit on the Magnum? I was planning to use Victron Quattro's in my project, but want to see if I should consider the new Magnums. So, how many button presses does it take to set max shore draw to 10amps and can I preset my generator to a particular limit (although I don't think this has a transfer switch, so might have to do it manually).
-Ben
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Brandon,
Can you comment on how easy it is to choose the shore amp draw limit on the Magnum? I was planning to use Victron Quattro's in my project, but want to see if I should consider the new Magnums. So, how many button presses does it take to set max shore draw to 10amps and can I preset my generator to a particular limit (although I don't think this has a transfer switch, so might have to do it manually).
-Ben
You press the (I believe) setup button, roll to the Charger menu, press the knob button, then change the AC Input Limit by rolling the knob up/down and pressing the button knob when done.
You can also assign it to a FAV position so it's a simple button press and a knob roll to access it.
I change it regularly depending upon my shore connection. It is adjustable all the way to 5A (I had it drawing off of my 900W generator and it was holding the limit nicely at 7 amps).
The other model (MSH4024RE) has a transfer switch and is set up for dual AC inputs. Check it out.
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Hey Brandon your post is very helpful to me, I am at the point of needing an inverter now but I do have a Charles charger already is there one like this without the charge capabilities or should I consider not having those components separate
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I've been very happy with the built-in 24V charger for the Magnum. I would probably re-task the charger for another purpose.
I actually ran the batteries low while at Burning Man (a infrastructure generator went down but I hadn't noticed). I charged them heavily with the charger and all seemed to work well (30A input limit on my power source).
Cheers!
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I'm very happy with how well my new MS4000 is working. So far I have just plugged it in and charged some batteries, which it did extremely well and I found programming it to be very easy and logical. For charging all I did was select in input current I wanted the charger to regulate down to (120 VAC 15 amp plug), select Flooded Cell battery type, set current to 30% of maximum (around 32 amps DC, or about 15% of my 232AH bank), and set the absorb charge to 1.5 hours, which is the low end what my battery manufacturer recommended. It bulk charged for about a half hour, switched to absorb and then to float/full. It toggles between float, which is a trickle charge at 13.2 or so volts, and full charge, which is no charging at all, just waiting for the voltage to drop down on the batteries to I think 25.4 VDC at which point it float charges again for a while. I also did an equalize charge for 3 hours, per the manufacturers recommendation.
If I get the lawn cut this afternoon I may get to install it in the bus later... Chores first, fun second. Curse the scottish work ethic!
Brian
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Bran where can I acquire this knowledge you have charge rates floats so on so forth. I have six marine 8D deep cycle Gell batteries I've been keeping them topped up with a trickle maintainer and as soon as I get an inverter I need to know how not to fry expensive stuff
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Two places - the Magnum manual, which is available on-line, has a lot of information about generic battery settings, and mostly the defaults on the program are going to be fine for almost all batteries. Then, you go to the battery manufacturers web-site, technical specifications, and there usually is some information available there. For example, the Magnum defaults to a 4 hour equalize charge and my batteries wanted a 3 hour, so I manually stopped the charge after 3 hours (that parameter is not adjustable on the Magnum). One good example is that flooded wet cell batteries you want to normally charge at no more than 20% of the 20hr AH rating. That's the generic setting that you would use. Your manufacturer might suggest 15%, or you might decide to limit to 15% because your AC input power is limited. It's all a balance.
Gell cell batteries are very particular about how you charge and maintain them. Do the research about your batteries and the maintainer you have to be sure.
Brian
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Thank you Brian I will study this in detail and I'm sure I would pick your thoughts down the road a bit
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After reading a post by Brandon a month or so ago I scored one of these from the same place he did at the same price. (The name of the online retailer is in an earlier post in this thread.) I was a little leery at first because even at that amazing price it's a pretty good chunk of change.
What I can report is that I got a brand new unit (not reman or refurb) that was shipped quickly at an amazing price. Like others, the best price I had seen was $600 more. Your mileage may vary, but I'd have no problem doing business with them again.
Mine is still sitting in the box until I get to installing it, but I've been researching inverters for a couple of years, and this fit every one of my criteria. Thanks so much Brandon for the great review. Also, I'm not sure if it's fact or not, but I understand that Magnum Energy was started by a bunch of the old Xantrex guys.
PS. I have no affiliation with Magnum or The Housewares Store - just a satisfied customer.
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Pretty happy over here too! Ran my pressurewasher (electric) off the battery bank (solar charged) yesterday and only made a 20% dent in the storage. Now the engine/transmission/roof/AC units are all clean!
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Brandon thank you we have been looking also and this fit the bill. I just bought one with 3 day shipping 1764.00. Most 4000 we have seen were 2300 to 2900Now where do we get the wall monitor or controller for this model?
Dave5Cs
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Brandon thank you we have been looking also and this fit the bill. I just bought one with 3 day shipping 1764.00. Most 4000 we have seen were 2300 to 2900Now where do we get the wall monitor or controller for this model?
Dave5Cs
I shopped around and found the Advanced version online for a reasonable price. No SUPER awesome deals to be had for that unit. You need to make sure it's a fairly new firmware loaded in the unit as well (not user upgradable) to take advantage of setting the options for the Hybrid features (Load Support, etc.)
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Brandon is this the one I need ME-ARC50 Remote Control I bought it also.
Dave5Cs
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Chrome man have you bought from this place? 1100 is to good to be true
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No I just saw it after I bought it on the other site. still saved a bunch. i don't think that one was a problem but it might be used or a second etc. don't know. Just realised there is no contact info on that site? Interesting. Thanks Fooy I took the link out just didn't trust it. :o
Dave5Cs
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They were most like headquarters in Cameroon, it's amazing how many scammers are out there on the net and how many people are victimized by them.
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Yes that site looked too sketchy. They had whole manufacture lines all discounted fairly ridiculous prices.
Seems rare that anyone would have that sort of 'stock' laying around at such discounted prices. :-)
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Well I ordered the MSH4024M 3 days ago and received the MSH3012M by UPS 3 day today. So i emailed and am waiting to hear where to send it back to so they can send me the one I ordered. It says on the site to not send it to the address on the site but does not tell you where to send it and it says Phone number for US is 1 866 682 0641 but it is easier to get assistance by e mail?
So I fired off 3 of them with the original order. It is like flying they always lose My luggage not the wife's. Just once I'd like them to lose hers. I wish her no ills just once with the bags. ;)
Today called Magnum and they told me this is an unauthorized dealer and there is no warrantee with these units, so you are on your own.
They are forwarding the serial number to their warehouse to see who bought it to get me some contact info so I can send it back to get the one I paid for.
Dave5Cs
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bump
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Wish I could afford the 1100 any of you guys selling your old inverters? ::)
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This morning after sending 5 e mails and tracking down and calling the owner of the company in Florida at her home I believe, ( her number was on my bank statement) they finally sent me an e mail saying we understand you received the wrong product with the order sheet attached for the inverter and the 1767.64 receipt paid.
What was it that we sent you so we can get this resolved.
I had told them what I received 5 times. So I sent it yet again. Hopefully I will get this one sent back when they tell me where to send it and get the bigger one.
Dave5Cs
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FWIW when I was trying to decide my course of action I sent them a couple of emails after the product link failed and that inverter disappeared from their site, and never got any response. I put it down to they had sold all they had and couldn't get anymore, so I gave up and thought no more of it. I've very upset to hear your issue, and especially the unauthorized distributor aspect of it. I would be sick if I had bought one and found later I had no warranty, so I really feel for you.
Brian
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This morning after sending 5 e mails and tracking down and calling the owner of the company in Florida at her home I believe, ( her number was on my bank statement) they finally sent me an e mail saying we understand you received the wrong product with the order sheet attached for the inverter and the 1767.64 receipt paid.
What was it that we sent you so we can get this resolved.
I had told them what I received 5 times. So I sent it yet again. Hopefully I will get this one back when they tell me where to send it and get the bigger one.
Dave5Cs
Hopefully everything will be taken care of
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Thanks guys but I am only writing it here to let you know if you buy one from this site that they have issues that you may need to be aware of. I used the link provided and i still think it will be fine after I did my due diligents. I believe the warehouse got a hold of them after I talked with Tom at Magnum and he forwarded the info to the warehouse and so on to her. the reason these are so deeply discounted are No warrantee and she just puts in orders from her website to a warehouse, They pull the order( in this case the wrong one) and send it on.
My bad was not looking for more contact info that was not on the site.
I will get an address to send back to and they will send me the correct one.
As my Wife says "Everything happens for a reason", sometimes we don't know what it is but it will eventually show itself.
It ain't nothing but a thing!... ;D
Dave5Cs
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Chromie are you talking about the site with the inverter for 1100? Can you send me the number where to contact them? I'm in Fort Lauderdale fl
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No Fooy the site Brandon put up and it should work out fine. You talked me out of the 1100 one. This one is 1767.64
Dave5Cs
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Ok. Good I'm saving the pennies for one also
Brandon another question if I may, I I wanted to just run my fridge and led lights would it be advantageous for me to use a smaller one when not using the ac units for efficiency sake not running a big inverter?
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Fooy figure out your loads of what you will (think) you will be running off an inverter. Add up the watts, convert to get the amp rating if needed. Then you add about 20% to that and that will give you a big enough one for now until you add the hot tub. You get one with a charger or separate. If one goes down then just replace that. If a single unit goes down you replace it at a much higher price.
I choose this one because of both in one unit we have a 35er so space is always a valued commodity. ;D
Dave5Cs
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Chrome thanks I do have a nice Charles charger already my bus is all electric inside. Propane for outdoor cooking. I have two basement a/c units 15,000. And a 9000 btu that I would like to run while going down the road powered from the busses alternator if possible but when I don't use the a/c is it more efficient to run a small inverter for the fridge and lights or is using a big inverter not an issue waste wise?
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Fooy it also depends on how many Batteries you put in and how you have them wired In series, Parallel, or both. 6,8,or 12 volt in combination of 4-6's and so on. I have 4 6 volts and will add 4 more for now so I will have 234 AH but together I will have X8 will be 1872 AH with a 24 volt system. I think I have that right. Go to a battery site and it will have the info and generally asheet to figure out what you will need and use wattage wise and inverter size, as well as battery types and how many to make up your house bank. 8)
Dave5Cs
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Fooy it also depends on how many Batteries you put in and how you have them wired In series, Parallel, or both. 6,8,or 12 volt in combination of 4-6's and so on. I have 4 6 volts and will add 4 more for now so I will have 234 AH but together I will have X8 will be 1872 AH with a 24 volt system. I think I have that right. Go to a battery site and it will have the info and generally asheet to figure out what you will need and use wattage wise and inverter size, as well as battery types and how many to make up your house bank. 8)
Dave5Cs
Can you post the link to the web site?
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Brandon I didn't mention it before this is a great post very helpful . Thank you
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I guess I should open the box in my front room to see if they shipped me the correct unit I bought from them.
Makes me curious how well they fill their orders.
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BabellII, It should be on the side of the box without even opening.
Harley, Type into your search window; "Inverter, deep cycle batteries, how many watts do i need"
That will bring up a bunch of sites that most will have that kind of info.
Buy a Man a Fish ya know? ;D
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Update.
They just sent me another email saying they are shipping today the bigger unit and apologized for the mix up. They will also send a mailing lab so I will not be charged for shipping. so it took awhile and a few calls to find out who to contact and then they finally contacted me.
If you need to get a hold of them for any of their products and i should of thought about this one instead of info @
Admin@ website and Mary is one of the customer service people.
Let you know in 3 to 4 days but I will bet it come faster than the first time. ;D
Dave5Cs
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That would suck to spend $1800 on an inverter and then have Magnum deny the warranty. They have a three year warranty. Magnum was number one on my list for a new inverter should mine ever die, but I will have to reconsider if the warranty is void if not through an authorized reseller. I hate companies that won't honor warranties.
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Well they already did deny it because of that fact. I figured I saved 500 to 1000.00 on some sites so thats something. When we had another one way back it was dead and they couldn't fix it and it was just out of Warrantee. Life goes on ya know. It will be good. Its a great unit.
Dave5Cs
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I like the lifetime warranty as usually that guy is already dead be for you buy it or some other lame excuse dave
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Exactly.
Dave5Cs from Galaxy S III
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I had the replace my Trace 3624 last year. And I installed the Magnum4024 with a control panel. it works well and takes care of my batterys as the trace did. I had the Trace repaired in NC by a Trace repair center there. It is for sale make a good offer we will be in SF ca. for the next 12 weeks. Jerry
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BabellII, It should be on the side of the box without even opening.
I did - it was thanks
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Glad to hear this is all getting sorted out! I know purchasing anything outside the 'proper channels' can be a pain if something doesn't go right....I hope anyone following my note on potential savings recognizes that. :)
FWIW, when speaking with vendors or manufactures, I like to play things cool and not disclose any information that I don't have to. Calling Magnum to get the unit swapped (2kW for a 4kW) was probably not the best course of action (puts you on their 'list') and realistically I wouldn't expect a manufacture to handle a vendors mixup (at least in this day and age).
If they're releasing stuff to market that they can't warranty, they're digging themselves a massive hole. I don't think this is the actual truth of the situation (even if some sales/support staff at Magnum said otherwise)
I SUSPECT that what is actually going on is that the manufacture need 'some' excuse to legitimize the reduced price and saying "we won't warranty your unit because you paid less than retail"...and that is a load of poo. If they're knowingly releasing a group of serial numbers as 'suspect, do not warranty' then I will be doing some pretty heavy duty arm twisting and barking over the phone (or happily in person, it's not a long drive to their facility from here) if the day comes where I need service. Making someone stand behind their product is pretty easy if you play the right cards and are dealing with stateside folks.
If I have any issues with my unit, they'll be repairing/replacing any and all problems covered by the warranty information included in the box with the unit. What I paid for the product, although it may rub them the wrong way, is none of their business and doesn't have squat to do with the quality of the electronics inside. It's retail packaging, with retail paperwork.
With all that said, my MSH4024M has been working flawlessly and I'm quite happy with it. I suspect issues may creep up for folks that expose to unit to any of it's extremes or violate the airflow/mounting/loading guides found in the manual (but what inverter/charger will withstand that?).
I'm really happy to support these guys over most of the other manufactures. I wouldn't judge their company/engineering/products based on one sales/support guys opinion about company policy regarding odd distribution routes. Their stuff appears to be well built, designed stateside, and works. I expect if/when the day comes that I need service/support...I can drive (or ship) their product back to them through the proper channels, in the factory retail box, and get it repaired at reasonable cost. I don't expect a free lunch once the warranty is expired.
All of this, of course, with a grain of salt ;-) Your mileage may vary.
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Ok. Good I'm saving the pennies for one also
Brandon another question if I may, I I wanted to just run my fridge and led lights would it be advantageous for me to use a smaller one when not using the ac units for efficiency sake not running a big inverter?
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FWIW, the inverting draw current (with no AC loads) is probably more than what you would want to leave on 24/7/365 unless your bank of batteries is HUGE (and you have some other power input like SOLAR/shore/etc.)
There is a 'search' mode where the unit will put a little power on the line to see if there is anything out there that wants/needs AC. If it sees the draw above some wattage threshold (I think this is configurable) it will activate the inverter until the load is turned off. This mode uses much less power draw in the long term.
To maximize efficiency it is best to size your inverter to your maximum expected load situation (with a little overhead for motor starting if including AC units/etc. in the mix). I purchased a 4kW because I knew I would be likely running two AC units and a coffee machine/microwave on occasion. The 4kW doesn't even blink an eye at that load (AC units draw ~1000W a piece w/ compressor running and fan on high). The ability for the larger inverters to deal with momentary loads (like motors starting) is pretty impressive.
Specs. for the MSH4024, assuming your battery bank and DC wiring are up to snuff:
1 msec surge current (amps AC) 120
100 msec surge current (amps AC) 82
5 sec surge power (real watts) 5800
30 sec surge power (real watts) 5400
5 min surge power (real watts) 4900
30 min surge power (real watts) 4500
Continuous power output at 25ºC 4500 VA
Not bad!
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Thank you Brandon that's helps. My battery bank is 6 12V deep cycle Gell 8Ds configured for 24V. So I'm going for this inverter also. Thanks
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Thank you Brandon that's helps. My battery bank is 6 12V deep cycle Gell 8Ds configured for 24V. So I'm going for this inverter also. Thanks
That sounds like a pretty good sized bank!
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With respect to the warranty, the manual clearly states that the warranty is to the original purchaser only, and they reserve the right to request the sales documentation to prove who purchased it and from whom. If you buy it from an unauthorized distributor, you are the second purchaser. So the declaration is clear and unambiguous - if you happen to clue in that the internet store you are buying from isn't an authorized distributor.
Brian
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That seems to be the key part, not openly advising where you bought the unit :-) I wonder if they have problems with un-official sales routes?
Thank you for bringing that up...makes better sense now.
Outside the warranty, it still seems easier to get service repair (at some $) from them versus some over-seas vendors. And even then, it's fairly cheap (compared to vehicles, homes, or even things like the batteries to power these guys) so you could warrant a replacement if repair costs were too exceptional. In that case, I wouldn't be scared to attempt my own repairs either, but I run an electrical engineering lab so have the tools and experience to service such an item.
For anyone else tuning in: If the warranty is something you need 100% confidence in, I personally would recommend purchase through an official vendor (Port Supply, Solar companies, etc.)
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When I was shopping for my Magnum, quite a number of places said you had to email or call for the price. Really irritated me. At the end of the day I finally did call the Canadian distributor, only to find out that they only sold to authorized resellers and not to the public. They sent me to Wegosolar, who turned out to be their old customer support person who "retired" and now does their mail-order business. She told me that she could sell for whatever she wanted to but she could only advertise the list price. So she advertises no price at all, and you have to call. She did me a good deal, threw in free shipping, and a decent deal on the remote control so I was pretty happy. She did not have access to the new hybrid units at that time, but they were going to be about a $500 premium over the regular unit.
So if you have a place selling Magnum for under the same old price you always see, it's not an authorized distributor and you have to call and see if you can make a deal happen.
Brian
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Ya thanks to you Brandon in the end for putting up the link. Don t care that much about the warrantee because now they are plug in boards and generally they are to much to replace anyway. Its all good.
I finally got the other one today and it goes well with the bus lol.
Magnum makes a good unit and it will last a long time. Man is that thing heavy. I got the controller yesterday and the rubber buttons were turned sideways inside then unit. I got them turned around with the help of really small needle nose pliers. Only me lol
Hope everyone else has a better experiance. It all worked out for the better.
Dave5Cs from Galaxy S III
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Hope everyone else has a better experiance. It all worked out for the better.
Dave5Cs from Galaxy S III
Very glad to hear that. I obviously have no vested interest in that company...I just was wanting to pass on the good deal (if it worked) to folks that have helped me out in the past. :-)
Very heavy unit...placing mine definitely requires some attention to safe back practices. I mounted it on a 3/4 piece of marine plywood under my port side seat forward the kitchen. The 320A/hr @ 24V SLA's lives in front of that (for now) and eventually will end up under the coach floor directly below (to keep the wire length short). I wanted to keep the inverter inside the cabin because the derating (and stress) of elevated temperatures like I would see on the exterior in the desert would be pretty hard on the unit.
Cheers,
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I haven't figured out where I will put them yet. The old one was in the upstairs Mstr Bdrm closet but the 2 #2 cables were 11 feet long and the repair guy and i were talking and we both thought that might be why it burned out. It was a Freedom 20, 12 volt with 4- 6 Volt batteries Trojan deep cycle. There was a burn mark on the wall behind it. Fixed some questionable wiring in the coach and still want to check some others to be safe before I hook up any pf this.
But I want to get the cables down to less than 5 feet if possible. The batteries ar in the back right side by the side rear door on a rack. I have 4-6 volt, US Batteries right now but want to double that. Each have 232 AH wired in Series/ Parallel.
Dave5Cs
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I haven't figured out where I will put them yet. The old one was in the upstairs Mstr Bdrm closet but the 2 #2 cables were 11 feet long and the repair guy and i were talking and we both thought that might be why it burned out. It was a Freedom 20, 12 volt with 4- 6 Volt batteries Trojan deep cycle. There was a burn mark on the wall behind it. Fixed some questionable wiring in the coach and still want to check some others to be safe before I hook up any pf this.
But I want to get the cables down to less than 5 feet if possible. The batteries ar in the back right side by the side rear door on a rack. I have 4-6 volt, US Batteries right now but want to double that. Each have 232 AH wired in Series/ Parallel.
Dave5Cs
At 5ft I would be shooting for 00 (2/0) or 0000 (4/0) wire personally. The Magnum manual shows the minimum as 00 (2/0). It's a steep price to pay....ONCE. You obviously have to use the right hydraulic crimp lugs (I've found that you can borrow that tool if you don't own the right one)
The voltage drop between my battery bank and my magnum (lead length is about 18 inches of 2/0) is still pretty substantial. I have the Xantrex battery monitor system mounted on there and it and the Magnum DC volt meters only agree with DC loads under about 20A. It's not alarmingly high voltage loss for the current/voltage/length/wire...but it is a factor worth considering. Especially if you expect to be starting motors and using the surge capacity of the Magnum.
Don't forget the proper ClassT fuse :-)
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I have to look at the wire again. It is in a bay with my tools. I was thinking it was #2 but it maybe bigger. It is about 1 inch thick. I end has the lugs on it and the other were cut off when they sent them back after telling me the other one could not be fixed.
We have 2 Parker shops where I go all the time and can get them to put 2 on the ends and cut them down for me.
I have lead acid so I may have to figure how I am going to separate the batteries and the inverter if I have to be that close to it. If I go up it will be right next to the bed to stay within the paramiters.
Dave5Cs
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So is it a bad thing to place it in the bay class to the bank? Mine are gells so I hope they don't gas to much. And would adding an auxiliary fan help it.? (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/20/eha6aqe9.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/20/y7eputyv.jpg)
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Wow how big are those. How are they wired S/P? Nice Fooy
Dave5Cs
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They are 8 Ds the big truck size, I haven't wired them yet, I keep them on a maintainer I move from one to the next every couple days
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Gel batteries only gas when they are abused. I suspect, with that size bank, and the maximum output current the Magnum MSH4024 can put out into charging, you will not gas those batteries unless you're wiring is poor and you abuse them (overcharge/bad balancing).
It sounds like you're on the right track so I wouldn't hesitate mounting the magnum down there. Just make sure it gets good airflow!
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Thanks Brandon, do you think #6 welding cable is good enough to wire up the bank with?
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Thanks Brandon, do you think #6 welding cable is good enough to wire up the bank with?
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No.
...unless you have MANY batteries in parallel (like x10) and you're only talking about the link to make a x2 12V cells a 24v.
If no paralleling is going on (only series) then I would say 00 or 0000 cables for interconnections.
If you are paralleling, you can use slightly smaller cables (distributing that 00 or 0000 across multiple parallel banks). I would still use large enough cables to keep thinks balanced. I cannot imagine using anything under 00 for a project like this.
Sean with ourodyssey has some nice notes about how to wire up a series-parallel 24bank to keep the cell loading balanced. http://odyssey.smugmug.com/photos/2228259-O.gif
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I rewired my battery bank using the following ingredients:
2/0 welding wire picked up off Craigslist, nice and flexible
2/0 copper crimp lug ends
Ancor marine grade shrink tube (with adhesive inside) off amazon, I bought 2 colors, both red and black, for the ends
A harbor freight hydraulic crimp tool, which I milled out to accept the larger 2/0 lugs
200 amp fuse off eBay
And a couple days labor
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Thank you Brandon scg53 that was very helpful, I am going to hold off on this part of my project since i discovered my bus wants new air bags :(.
Brandon I am going to have thee banks of 24V each composed of 2 x12V before I do any of this I will list every thing I have and post it here for yours Brian's and others with more experience than me. These bits are too pricey to do something less than optimum. Or let the smoke out. I can't thank you enough for this post of yours it has been very informative
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I have to ask, why do you you have 7 batteries? Also - there is an option for sizing the battery cable based on maximum design load. If your maximum load possible on the inverter is say 3000 watts, less than the inverter's maximum capacity, you can design to use cables for that load. If you do that, you also size the protection fuse to that power level.
Brian
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Hey Brian the answer to that question is - I couldn't pass up the deal and 7 was all that was available at the time, I have a neighbor in the yacht refitting business and I got these from him for $250 each instead of the $700+ they go for I plan on 6 for my house bank and when he gets more I will buy one for for my engine start bank. Then I will try to locate a smart voltage regulator recommended by fast Fred for the proper charge rates while on the road. PS I am much relieved now that I have go to guys for these phase of my conversion. Thank you Brian / Brandon --- today I spent half the day contorted in a painful knot under the bus removing one more airbag
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I found the Magnum MSH4024M inverter for sale on at least one website that sells solar stuff for just over $1,700. There are a number of websites that publish a higher price due to MAP requirements, but the price is lower once in the cart.
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Belfert would these places be authorized sellers with the warranty intact?
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Belfert would these places be authorized sellers with the warranty intact?
That I can't tell you. I would suspect a retailer who advertises the MAP price instead of the actual selling price is likely to be authorized.
The whole authorized reseller is a bunch of BS in my opinion. Is the inverter more likely to need warranty service simply because of who it is was/was not purchased from? I promised myself I wouldn't buy from Magnum due to the warranty BS, but they appear to have the only standalone generator auto start module that will work with my particular generator.
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Belfert would these places be authorized sellers with the warranty intact?
That I can't tell you. I would suspect a retailer who advertises the MAP price instead of the actual selling price is likely to be authorized.
The whole authorized reseller is a bunch of BS in my opinion. Is the inverter more likely to need warranty service simply because of who it is was/was not purchased from? I promised myself I wouldn't buy from Magnum due to the warranty BS, but they appear to have the only standalone generator auto start module that will work with my particular generator.
What Generator do you have?
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I have a Powertech 8CSI generator. It uses a momentary contact to start/stop. Most generator autostarts just open or close the circuit. The Magnum autostart has a momentary mode. They even have a diagram for wiring up my exact generator.
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Hey Brandon Just wanted to share that this post was a big help. I have have set aside all the necessary pennies for the Magnum and I'm going to place the order now, Ill post here how my purchase experience goes. hopefully better than Chromies. ;)
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Cool!
My inverter sits in The Ghost watching the battery bank. The bank is all charged up from the solar.
We had an event here in PDX recently where an impromptu outdoor stage fired up. They needed big power (large sound system, peaking loads into the 25-30A ranges) and since I'm the power distribution guy, I hooked them up....directly to the output of my nearby coach. :D
The extension cord into the building got a 11A limit set on it (others were sharing it too for lights/etc.) and the inverter picked up the rest by doing Load Support. I even ran an electric heater that night in the bedroom to knock the chill off for the wife and I.
Very cool technology and seems to be working flawlessly.
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AC/DC MARINE, INC.
Ramsey Fawzy
23316 S. Normandie Ave
Ste. D
Torrance, CA 90502
United States
Phone: 424-264-3273
acdcinc@msn.com
Invoice date 11/14/2013
Payment terms Due on receipt
Due date 11/14/2013
Bill To
1foo.horse@gmail.com
Description Quantity Unit price Amount
Magnum MS4024 1 $1,743.00 $1,743.00
Magnum ME-RC50 1 $183.20 $183.20
Magnum ME-BMK 1 $175.20 $175.20
Subtotal $2,101.40
Total $2,101.40 USD
CHECK THIS OUT GUYS....this Authorized dealer made me this deal WITH THE WARRANTY INTACT. and he will do the same for any member of our board here. super nice people AAA++++ customer service he even gave me his personal cell number in case of any issues. SO MOVE AWAY FROM THAT SECOND RATE HOUSEWARES STORE with no warranty .......Sorry Chromie which I could have saved you.
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It looks that the unit you got quoted was a MS4024, not a MSH4024.
Two very different units :-)
Thanks for the tip though!
Cheers,
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Jorge, did you buy a MS-4024 or a MS-4024 Hybrid?
Brian
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Nice catch Brian.
That's actually not a very good price for the MS4024. I had my local Port Supply rep pricing a MS4024 into the 1500ish range before I decided to go with the MSH instead.
The MSH4024 (hybrid model) seems to come at a higher price most places I've looked.
Vendors are making deals to get the non hybrid units out the door before they're stuck with the stock. I don't blame them.
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RATS I really dislike having to spend money not knowing the lay of the land completely. oh well I guess I cant live in an auto mechanic world excursively. Ill get back here as soon as I talk to Ramsey the Magnum rep.
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no Probs Fooey. I am with Brandon I can figure it out if the time should arise to need the warrante. I like the unit.
Dave5Cs
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Well guys I got my money back. It was the non hybrid unit that Brandon said should sell for $1,500, Thank you Brian for pointing that out I feel like an idiot even after this thorough report that Brandon has put such effort into I still made such an error.
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:-[
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I paid $1700 odd for my MS4024 a few months ago, for me it was a screaming deal because it came from the retail outlet closely associated with the authorized importer into Canada, it was a net price without customs duty and brokerage fees that I would have had to pay to have a unit shipped into Canada, and it came with free shipping to me in Nova Scotia. Unless you need the boost feature I wouldn't shy away from an MS4024 as it's an excellent inverter/charger.
Brian
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A while back I had posted that I found several places online selling the MSH4024M for around $1,700. Today, I can no longer find those places. I had simply done a Google search and on several sites there was a lower price when added to cart. I really should have posted the sites back then, but I didn't want anyone to think I was benefiting from posting the site names.
I have my doubts that the 4024M is being cleared out because of the MSH4024M. There are a lot of folks that who don't need or want load sharing and will want to save money on their inverter. If one stays in campgrounds with 30 and 50 amp power there is no need for load sharing. Busnuts tends to be a little more adventurous and stay at places with a 15 or 20 amp outlet.
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that houswares store has the MSH 4024M for sale again at $1700. I just bought one finally. now I need the cables for the battery bank and the controller rhttp://www.thehousewaresstore.com/sw-magnmsh4024m.html
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Just went on The Housewares Store website. They also have the 3 kw 12 volt model for $1,661. How can they sell at that low price? Is there a catch? Warranty? I'm very tempted to purchase one. Kenny
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I straight inverter can be relatively cheap. It's when you add the smart charger to the inverter the price goes up close to a buck a watt. Good Luck, TomC
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Kenny, the thread explored the fact that they are an unauthorized reseller and Magnum will not honor any warranty for product purchased from them. They are selling below the minimum allowable advertised price so Magnum disavows any relationship with them. For good or bad, better or worse, if you buy from an unauthorized reseller you are on your own with Magnum.
Brian
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I spoke directly with Magnum this morning about the low cost from The Housewares Store. They said they've had a problem with them selling for such a low cost. Magnum has a suggested retail price policy that is not being followed. Nevertheless Magnum did say that as long as you have proof of purchase receipt, you are the original owner and it was a brand new inverter in the original box with the the manual and original accessories, they will honor the warranty. They said it doesn't matter if it was an authorized distributer or not. They will still honor the warranty. For reasons unknown they did say they may have a problem if one were to purchase from an Auction website. I also contacted The Housewares Store concerning the warranty which they replied it had a 3 year manufactures warranty. With all this information I went online and purchased the MSH 3000 12 volt model from The Housewares Store. After I receive the inverter I'll contact Magnum with the serial number and receipt to verify Magnums warranty. Wish me luck. Kenny
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I hope that works. Others have been told by Magnum that since the reseller is not authorized they are considered the first owner, and subsequent owners don't get the warranty. If they do step up I expect their authorized dealers would be a tad upset, but good for you.
Brian
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Kenny let us know how that goes. I did it already and they told me it was sold to that company through a 3rd party and had non. It will be interesting to see if they change it.
Dave
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I still stand by the fact that it would be best to deal with the warranty when the time comes, versus pressing on them to make a blanket decision now based on the seller of the product.
Do as you wish, but if you want to press on them for the warranty details, you might want to buy from the folks that make them more money and service that you're desiring.
Minutes on the phone = upsetting any manufacturer just on principle, especially discussing details of price and warranty without an actual issue yet. :-)
I feel fortunate to have found the deal (with some significant digging) and have enjoyed the use of my inverter/charger thus far.
Cheers,
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Received the MSH 3012M Hybrid inverter today. All is there packed in original Magnum box. Good to go and try it out. Kenny
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Baymarinesupply.com has a good price on this inverter. They are not on Magnum's list of authorized resellers.