BNO BBS - BNO's Bulletin Board System
TOPICS => THE BOARD => Topic started by: buddyten on May 14, 2014, 05:26:12 PM
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I know this topic has been on here a lot, but I am just looking for some clarification. I am not "versed" in ash percentages, etc and just need to know in the simplest terms about some oil
We have 89 Eagle 6V92T w/allison tranny. The engine was completely rebuilt just right before we bought it. All new Detroit parts, done by Detroit dealer. Has about 20K or so on new rebuild. We have been using Delo 400 Straight 40W.
It is getting increasingly harder to find the Delo 400. I usually have to order it through O'Reillys (that is what we used on our old bus). However, they have another user (a logging business) that uses Delo 100 Straight 40, and they keep several cases in stock for him.
Just would like your opinions.
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Hi buddy, I hope luvrbus chimes in, I have heard DELO 100 & 400 is good as long as its the 40W, multi vicosity went right thru my 8V71 like a sieve. Depending on what region your in, O'Rielys might be the only way to get Delo, for a while all I could get was ConocoPhillips 76 in 40W, then they changed and the ash level was over 1.2, lvmci...
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Delo 100 works use it most have gone to the 400 40w because the 100 40W is hard to find all C rated oil have 1% or less ash nowadays the EPA took that worry away for you The oil of choice for a 2 stroke is Mobil Delvac 1240 IMO
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Buddy -
Mobile Delvac 1240
Shell Rotella T
Chevron Delo 100
These are the three most popular correct oils to use in your 2-stroke Detroit.
Of the three, the Delo 100 has the lowest sulfated ash content, at least it did the last time I looked at their MSDS sheets. Detroit's specs called for less than 1%, Delo 100 was at 0.85% and Rotella T was right at 1%. Clifford says the EPA made them all less than 1% now, so who knows. . .
Chevron's own website states that Delo 400 is NOT acceptable for use in the 2-stroke.
Since you often order from O'Reilly's, their P/N for the Delo 100 is CHV 100-40-1. If the teenager behind the computer struggles with that, tell him to put CHV in the Vendor box, then the rest of the number in the regular P/N box.
Most importantly, do NOT use multi-weight oil in this engine!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
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Guys read the label on the jug for the Delo 400-40w it will list 2 series of the MTU engines read the jug for 15/40 delo 400 one goes away guess which one the 2 strokes. Wrap your head around this the 60 series calls for 15/40 only and 1% or less ash it has always been 1% or less ash on any engine Detroit ever built even the 100,300 and 500 series engines which were a re badge engine to much is made about the ash deal it's not there anymore like the Delo 400-15/40 has .05 ash there are approved SL rated oil for a 2 stroke also.I came from the old school before the Delo 100 was ever marketed for a 2 stroke plain old Delo Rpm,Gulflube,Delvac,Texaco or Esso where the brands
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Well, since Clifford's chimed in, here we go again. . .
Chevron Delo 400 monograde:
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=77118&docFormat=PDF
Chevron Delo 400 multigrade:
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=77112&docFormat=PDF
Chevron Delo 100 40 wt:
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=77106&docFormat=PDF
Exxon Mobil Delvac 1240 40 wt:
http://www.mobil.com/Norway-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1240.aspx
Shell Rotella T40:
http://quakercity.com/QC_Lubricants/rotellat40.htm
All of the above are the latest Specification sheets from the mentioned manufacturers that I could find within a few minutes of Googling. If you read them carefully, especially the Applications and the Sulfated Ash percentages, you'll see that Clifford really is the <snark> expert. . .
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
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Hi Clifford and RJ, do you have to go all the way to Norway to get DELVAC?, cant get it in LV, lvmci...
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It is Power Guard at WW Williams when they run their annual sale it is around 10 bucks a gal funny how oil is regional in Texas on the coast one can buy Delvac 1240 at drugstores and BBQ places ::)
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you guys are great, everything we need to know about oil, all in one post! I'm going to print out the spec sheets and keep them.
Thanks guys!
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LOl read the SL rating on the 400 then read your DD bible funny they post different stuff on the net than they do the jugs no mention of MTU but the jug has it now the 400 15/40 is only made in LE .05 ash like racing run what you bring
Don and Geoff are like me to much BS about the oil both run 15/40 in their 92 series one uses a synthetic 15/40 hell of a marketing deal 8). I just pulled my DD bible for a 60 series 15/40 recommended ash content .50 long ways from 1.00 + Chevron is saying
Then fwiw 40w with the CF rating is for closed crank case systems in the marine engines I never knew that I always thought it was 15/40 only for a 60 series so now I know why you can use 40W in a series 60 check out the CJ-4 rating and see what the ash content is
We used a higher ash content oil sometimes in the 2 strokes to balance the TBA it's all in the DD bible
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I'm not really worried about the ash content as much as I don't like the way 15w-40 breaks down and turns into 15w-30 in 50 hours or 3k miles of driving. I ran oil analysis on 15w-40 Rotella to see how it breaks down and you have to have a tight engine to run 30wt or have a oily mess from thinner oil. And it only gets worse after 3k miles.
The only 40wt I can get easily from my oil distributor is T5X HD 40wt. Now he tells me he has T3X 40wt. left over from a barrel. So I guess I go buy a few pails of that.
--Geoff
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None of this stuff makes sense people are always looking for CF-2 rated oil that is a obsolete API rating and has been for several years and oil companies are still using the CF-2 rating to sell oil 8)
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Buddy -
WTF, just buy whatever oil you want and throw it in your engine, it doesn't care.
Only your wallet will know the difference, somewhere down the road.
:o
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FWIW, Castrol makes a 40W with the less than 1% ash rating. It's available in lots of places around here because we still have a lot of marine use.
TOM
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Back to your question Buddy the Delo 100 will work
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I mostly use the straight 40 weight from walmart. No idea who makes it, but it's on the shelf and that counts for a lot.
Brian
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I was told once upon a time by a fellow at Cdn Tire that I have known for long time that theirs is blended by Shell. I also have and am using WM straight 40 cf2. It is is packaged in Toronto, so likely either Esso or Shell. Heaven forbid if it was done by PetroCanada. Yea I know PCan is not taxpayer owned anymore.
Folks south of the 49th might not know, but the hatred of the Trudeau high handedness of some thirty years ago will never be forgotton by us westerners. Now his ofspring is vying for the seat of high office. He's got a pretty face but nothing between the ears.
Joe.
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http://www.walmart.com/ip/Edge-Syntec-0W40-Motor-Oil-5-Quart/35931146#Item+Description
0W40????? Is this straight 40 wt?
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Multi weights will pour out of your DD. 0W to 40W, is zero weight, lvmci...
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Hmmmmmm I have some straight 60 wt Harley oil will that stop the leak and work ::)
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lol very little is ever said that DD wants 50W when the ambient temperatures are 100 degrees and over 8) It is always about the ash if owners paid any attention to fuel specs for a 2 stroke they would run out of fuel looking for it, about 3/4 of fuel sold today at truck stops don't even come close fwiw
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I had also heard that Walmart 40W oil was refined by Shell....
http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/diesel-engine-oil-sae-40-189l/6000111967709
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Look at the gasoline engine rating on the oil S/L that is a universal oil but I have my doubts about it being Shell they don't have the S/L rating on their Rotella T1-40 I don't know about Canada but here in the states all the Shell Oil is blended,packaged and distributed by Sopus Oil in Houston Tx
Which is a division of Warren that owns all of the Shell packaging and blending plants and are very tight with WM and have been for 25 years plus they do buy a lot of oil from Citco the S/L rating would lead me toward Citco oil it's good stuff
thanks Tim
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50 wt for the 8V-92 when run much higher hp.
Seems to be a routine rear main bearing spinning on the 8V-92, not sure of the total picture, but in our area, the 6V-92 is more desireable as they have a much better track record for bearibg spinning.
Me, ran the 50 wt in my 8V-92 due to the much higher hp setting (600+) with zero issues.
Don't laugh, but we all have our learned opinions, right or wrong ;D
Dave M
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50 wt for the 8V-92 when run much higher hp.
Seems to be a routine rear main bearing spinning on the 8V-92, not sure of the total picture, but in our area, the 6V-92 is more desireable as they have a much better track record for bearing spinning.
Me, ran the 50 wt in my 8V-92 due to the much higher hp setting (600+) with zero issues.
Don't laugh, but we all have our learned opinions, right or wrong ;D
Dave M
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600 hp, damn :o What does the 6v92 put out?
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it depends how much cooling you have, mostly. I read that on boats, with an ocean for the radiator, they go up to 600 hp from the 6V92. Not long between rebuilds I bet, though...
Brian
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450 hp from the 6V-92industrial is not uncommon, for that matter the 6-71T runs at 345 hp also.
Found the 8V-92 @ 480 hp constant is not a long time winner, while the 12V-71 N/A goes on & on at 480 setting.
Dave M
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I found this thread interesting but I must say that many of you know what the other is talking about but I really, really do not. It appears I have been using the wrong oil for way too many years (or am I?....confused). There are so many mentions of so many oils and everyone says they are fine and that they are not.
For those of us who know nothing and are easily confused by the point counter-point, could someone clarify what oil I should be using in my 8V-92? Is the Delo 400 really bad? If so, where the heck do you get any of the others listed as being correct? I travel full-time and can't order stuff to be delivered next week.
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Bill -
Better listen to luvrbus. . . he's the "expert." The rest of us are just too plain stupid to know any better.
:(
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RJ that is all uncalled for these old engines have been around for 75 years long before the bs internet I have 2- 8v92 in the shop right now for rebuilds and in all the years I never saw a 71-53-92 fail because of the brand of oil, no oil yea they fail. Sorry you are pissed off but I really don't care one way or the other or what people use for oil 8)The only affect the high ash content oil will have on a 2 stroke is the oil change interval you may need to 8,000 miles instead 10 or 15 k miles between changes take samples it will tell you
RJ I am going to post this straight from DD section 13.3 page 7 (Sept 1983) then I will never say any else about oil
There is a performance trade-off when using either high
or low ash oils.High ash oils(greater than 1.000% by weight) sometimes !!!provide excessive exhaust valves and ring groove deposits but have shown superior anti-wear performance on compression rings and cylinder liners.
Low ash oils,historically,have shown minimal engine deposit formation tendencies but premature wear has been experienced in some applications.As indicated in the oil change section,low ash oils do not provide sufficient neutralization capability when high sulfur diesel fuels are used.
All I am trying to say is you are not married to the low ash oils the manufactures say you are and like on these boards I don't know about you or the rest of the group but I'll take anti-wear any day over carbon deposits if it does happen a spray bottle of water will remove those fwiw diesel fuel changed in 2007 so did the oils
good luck
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Clifford -
Like I said, you're the expert, the rest of us are just too plain stupid to know any better.
If I was pissed off, you'd know it.
:-*
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Never meet any stupid person on these boards ideas may vary but that is because we are people and why we are all different
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Bill -
Better listen to luvrbus. . . he's the "expert." The rest of us are just too plain stupid to know any better.
:(
I'll have you know I have recently been promoted to "DOOFUS"!
AND, it only took me half a century to reach this milestone! (I wasn't trying the first part of my life!)
TOM
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I was in Newville PA last week and the 40 W oil that I use from walmart in Canada was on the shelf but only in 2 gal. jugs in the walmart PA http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/diesel-engine-oil-sae-40-189l/6000111967709
dave
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Had a look at one of my "in stock" WM pails. Clearly states that it is made in Canada and is 20 liters in volume with the rating Api service CF2,CE,SH,SJ
The pail pictured in the above post is 18.9 L (5US gallons) and the rating slightly different, so it may be packaged elsewhere.
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Better listen to luvrbus. . . he's the "expert." The rest of us are just too plain stupid to know any better.
\
I would do just take if I fully understood the information or the followup. There is information being posted by luvrbus but it's confusing reading when you are just looking for "can I use this oil" information. "Use whatever you like" or "None of this stuff makes sense people are always looking for CF-2 rated oil that is a obsolete API rating and has been for several years and oil companies are still using the CF-2 rating to sell oil " leaves me just feeling even more stupid than before I arrived.
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Bill i am no expert and feel the same way as you. BUT I had a fourty foot Bluebird with a 6V92 for several years and now have a 4905 for several years. The both ran well on Delo 100 and 400. Take it for what it is worth but they worked for me
Larry
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I have been reading these posts on here and would agree that its more confusing then when I started. :) In the world of gas powered cars the arguments are very similar so its more about exercising your ability to recall and interpret and argue the facts that are in print then actual hands on knowledge unless you have been inside of many engines and know the history of the oils that were used for the life of them. Some people on here seem to have that qualification and other not so much. I also believe that all oils that have been used in these engines will lubricate them just fine and maybe some will cause more deposits then others but argue away if you don't agree. If with my experience as a gas engine re-builder as long as you keep oil in them then they will work just fine but today there is another aspect that has boomed in the last 20 years in that they now use turbos and hence they did make an oil that is much better for them that being full synthetic because synthetic oil stands up to heat much better and less coking when the oil lubricates and helps cool the turbo hence less particulate matter in the oil which will eventually plug up the oil pick up screen and cause a total engine failure. This is what I have learned throughout the years, especially in the last 7 or so by doing all turbo engines and some have good history records, but still even some good other Saab mechanics will argue their point of view so following and recommending the manufactures recommendations will usually keep me out of trouble. Doesn't anyone use synthetic oil in the old jimmy engines?
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One other aspect of "oil" for these antique engines and all engines as well, that has not been mentioned is that over the years the metallurgy has changed and became much better then in the old days when the DD were around the days of WWII, so maybe the oil is being mis-blamed for ware that has happened to engines. When I first started getting into engines it was common place to use a ridge reamer in order to get the pistons out of the engine. I always had a ridge reamer in my tool box until about the mid 80's and have not had one since since there is almost no ridge in any of the engine bores since then and never have a problem removing a piston without cutting the ridge except about 9 years ago I was into a model T Ford engine and had to use one to remove the pistons. :) But anyway in today's engines they just don't ware the bore anymore like that with even 200K miles on an engine. They will ware the rings first but still even the rings will last 200K plus with a well maintained engine. 99.9% of the time an engine will either ware out or fail because of owner neglect more then the type of oil they use.
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Doesn't anyone use synthetic oil in the old jimmy engines?
Most synthetics are not CFII rated as required.
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Bills,400 is not going to hurt your engine back when they changed the fuel and oil we had a onslaught of failed pistons and liners from DD till they changed the makeup of the liners use a good 40w and you will be fine.I am not a internet guy but I do know how to work on a old DD I have a 8v92 here with 410,000 miles on it to rebuild it's never had any other oil besides the 400-40w ran it I will try and post some pictures then you be the judge
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http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/702-Logo.pdf
Schaeffer oil has a synthetic blend that's cf2 40wt but it's ash is 1.2%
I've never used it but I book marked it.
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Thanks luvrbus. That's a response even I can understand. With your DDEC I background I wish you could figure out what was wrong with mine!
Anyway, I have a couple of gallons of Delo 400 left but will look for the 100 or other listed oils going forward.
Thanks for the follow-up.
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Thanks for the input and will be watching for photos from Luvrbus.
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http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/702-Logo.pdf
Schaeffer oil has a synthetic blend that's cf2 40wt but it's ash is 1.2%
I've never used it but I book marked it.
Does anyone have an opinion on this oil? I am in St. Louis and this will be easily accessible.
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Royal Purple 40w synthetic has been used in the 2 strokes for years some military base still use it 1000's of drums of Royal Purple at Ft Hood. I am not much on the 15/40 I like the 40w and 50w but would use 15/40 in emergency the ash content in oil doesn't bother me Detroit says you can use 2.50 ash content oil for heavy sulfur fuel. I don't think I would even try the 0 to 40w synthetics that is staring with nothing
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I have stated his before, Have a friend that had a 4106 and tried using 0-40 synthetic (dont know brand details) but he only got a couple of blocks down the road before disaster struck.
Motto, stick with what works.
Joe.
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Buddy -
Mobile Delvac 1240
Shell Rotella T
Chevron Delo 100
These are the three most popular correct oils to use in your 2-stroke Detroit.
Of the three, the Delo 100 has the lowest sulfated ash content, at least it did the last time I looked at their MSDS sheets. Detroit's specs called for less than 1%, Delo 100 was at 0.85% and Rotella T was right at 1%. Clifford says the EPA made them all less than 1% now, so who knows. . .
Chevron's own website states that Delo 400 is NOT acceptable for use in the 2-stroke.
Since you often order from O'Reilly's, their P/N for the Delo 100 is CHV 100-40-1. If the teenager behind the computer struggles with that, tell him to put CHV in the Vendor box, then the rest of the number in the regular P/N box.
Most importantly, do NOT use multi-weight oil in this engine!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Thanks RJ. I went to O'Reilly's today to see if I could get some Delo 100 since I will be here for a few days. The kid didn't know but said the other guy did. The other guy told him where to look and we found the list. He said there was no Delo listed. I had to guide him to the Chevron section. After that and one failed link he found the right oil with your p/n so I knew it was right. Said they will have 6 gallons for me tomorrow morning!! $12.99/gallon was a very reasonable price as well.
Thanks for all of your information. It is much appreciated.
In case I didn't reply, thanks for the P/M as well.
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Try this one I saw marked on a drums of Pennzoil and Castrol 40W at a supplier in Idaho both had API CF2/CF4/SG/SI ratings ash content 0.48 fwiw CF4 is 4 stroke oil and the SG and SI are for gasoline engines the future is here :P
good luck
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Thanks to the info on this thread I got 4 cases of Delo 100 from my O'Rilley's. Will probably order a few more cases. Figure the price will never go down and the stuff doesn't go bad so why not stock up.
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No really Whats the spark plug gap on a diesel set at? ;D
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0.40 8) this oil crap does get old no way are the oil refiners going to make a special oil for a obsolete engine ,if you read the jug on Delo 400 it says for use in MTU 1 and 2 engines and MTU is the new name for DD
good luck
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0.40 8) this oil crap does get old no way are the oil refiners going to make a special oil for a obsolete engine ,if you read the jug on Delo 400 it says for use in MTU 1 and 2 engines and MTU is the new name for DD
good luck
That's what I did. I read the jug of Delo 400 and it specifically stated that it was NOT for use with a 2-cycle.
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Lol that is one old jug all I have say MTU 1 and MTU 2 engines I'll buy anyone here a steak dinner for any that can show me where DD says only use low ash oil it has always been based on the fuel and TBA numbers they only recommend low ash oil for high sulfur fuel it's in section 13 of the 1988 manuals for 71 series and 92 series
good luck
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Of course it's not an old jug!
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3894/14365868428_76e4f76fe3_b.jpg)
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0.40 8) this oil crap does get old no way are the oil refiners going to make a special oil for a obsolete engine ,if you read the jug on Delo 400 it says for use in MTU 1 and 2 engines and MTU is the new name for DD
good luck
That's what I did. I read the jug of Delo 400 and it specifically stated that it was NOT for use with a 2-cycle.
Response to this post by luvrbus took 5 minutes and went like this:
Lol that is one old jug all I have say MTU 1 and MTU 2 engines I'll buy anyone here a steak dinner for any that can show me where DD says only use low ash oil it has always been based on the fuel and TBA numbers they only recommend low ash oil for high sulfur fuel it's in section 13 of the 1988 manuals for 71 series and 92 series
Response to the post by luvrbus showing the Delo 400 specs ........SPEECHLESS.
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See the CF rating it general I am old enough to remember when the Delo 100 hit the market back in 60's 30 years after the DD was born and was working part time for Srewart and Stevenson when Chevron convinced DD with the low ash content and the right filter you could run a 8v71 for 100,000 between oil changes that didn't work out too good for DD or Chevron
Me personally I could care less what oil people it is their engine it just chaps one when all you read on these boards is use only low ash oil it is bs, DD spells it out if the TBA numbers are high use a more ash content oil which are getting hard to find nowadays
If you read the list of engine manufactures on the bottle of Delo 400 it will tell you MTU 1 and 2 engines as I have said before I never saw a DD 2 stroke fail because of the ash content of oil Lol I am a long way from speechless with 2- 8v92's and 1 -6L71 I am building into a DDEC in my shop now waiting for a rebuilds and conversion
good luck
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The ash content comes from the detergent and additive package, the old detergent packages used metallic additives that turned to metallic ash when the burned. With the new EPA requirements they reduced the ash content by coming up with different detergent elements that didn't create the ash. My thought is that nowadays ash content is almost meaningless, it's changed so much from even 20 years ago when these old two strokes stopped being put in new vehicles.
Brian
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Someone on this board is nuts. I'm pretty sure it's not me but you never know! I have 3 gallons of Delo 400 40-W free to anyone who would like it.
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The low ash oil was introduced in the 60's when the government and refiners pulled the plug on kerosene (#1 diesel fuel) which was the primary fuel for the 2 strokes, ash and heavy fuel are gone and have been since 2006 All the bs about oil is not going to make your 8v92 last any longer Bill I'll wager you on that one 8)
Use the Delo 100 and pour a gal in every 1200 to 1500 miles it's your engine and money if you believe so strong in the Delo 100 I am not believer in the crap We would dump the series 3 high ash in the old 8v71's and 12v71's they would last 4 to 500,000 miles and I have had the 8v92's last just as long without Delo 100
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Thanks for giving me permission luvbus! The 100 is as cheap or cheaper than the 400 so your argument is that I should continue to use oil that is specifically listed as incompatible with my 2-stroke rather than the oil that is recommended for use with my engine based entirely upon your "experience".
Would you or anyone on this forum really consider that to be good advice? If anyone say "Yes", I am out of here and I will have answered my own question about who on this forum is nuts.
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Thanks for giving me permission luvbus! Would you or anyone on this forum really consider that to be good advice? If anyone say "Yes", I am out of here and I will have answered my own question about who on this forum is nuts.
Bill -
Sent you a PM. . .
;)
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For us older gear heads, many things have dropped off the radar in the last 40 years, like Kerosene (#1), years ago, all AT&T sites only used kerosene in their Detroits, another is the oil TBN rating of oil to combat the sulfer in the fuel. With the new low sulfer fuel, that part of the oil makeup is less critical.
I feel the biggest advance in engines is the better lube oils.
My opinion; more folks are book experts than hands on sperienced. Have read all about it, but wnnabee's. That provides for lots of opinions (not all) that are strange & funny.
Dave M
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I liked Dave's comment about the advancements in the oil to prevent ware. Also along with that is the advancements of the metallurgy that the engines and parts are made out of since the late 70's. For us older gear heads most will remember the use of a ridge reamer to get pistons out of the bores. I use to keep at least two of them in my shop and now days don't even have one, because the bores don't ware enough to have to remove the ridge to get the pistons out. Also on cars you will notice on the odometer that it had to add another digit to count the hundred thousands of miles the cars have gone. Its not uncommon to see 3 on that digit.
I too would listen to experience more then book knowledge and know that many people who are hands on types also are well read on the subject. Also bear in mind that what is written on a bottle of oil was written by a company who is also out there to maximize their profit in anyway possible.
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Hi Clifford, I hope to come down there in the next few weeks, it would be great to pick up some Delvac for my next oil change, tom, lvmci...
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Sorry, Bill but I am not a internet jockey I just tell what I know from experience I have been trying to find some one to help with your DDEC but I don't want to send you in the wrong direction to someone you may can actually fix your problems on the DDEC 1 before you fry it so I'll stop looking
good luck
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Boy do I get that comment about the DDEC or anything with a comuter, I am clueless. Hell if my Cummins ISM screws up and it does ot show the right data in the comuter, I am dead in the water too.
Why they now have techs, for repair instead of mechanics I fear. :o
Dave M
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Thanks for giving me permission luvbus! The 100 is as cheap or cheaper than the 400 so your argument is that I should continue to use oil that is specifically listed as incompatible with my 2-stroke rather than the oil that is recommended for use with my engine based entirely upon your "experience".
Would you or anyone on this forum really consider that to be good advice? If anyone say "Yes", I am out of here and I will have answered my own question about who on this forum is nuts.
Bill are you the gentleman that has been having endless problems with your DD engine? If so why in the hell are you working so hard to piss off someone on this board that knows more about DDs than anyone I have ever ran across . Makes no sense to me, but it think I have figured out why you are having your endless engine problems,,,,,,just saying.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Thanks for giving me permission luvbus! The 100 is as cheap or cheaper than the 400 so your argument is that I should continue to use oil that is specifically listed as incompatible with my 2-stroke rather than the oil that is recommended for use with my engine based entirely upon your "experience".
Would you or anyone on this forum really consider that to be good advice? If anyone say "Yes", I am out of here and I will have answered my own question about who on this forum is nuts.
Bill are you the gentleman that has been having endless problems with your DD engine? If so why in the hell are you working so hard to piss off someone on this board that knows more about DDs than anyone I have ever ran across . Makes no sense to me, but it think I have figured out why you are having your endless engine problems,,,,,,just saying.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I don't appreciate anyone, no matter the level of their knowledge, insulting me or my intelligence and if that's how luvrbus likes to play the game I don't need that kind of help. I will not be insulted and leave it there. I also doubt luvrboy has ever lifted a finger on my behalf but now tries to use that as a form of retaliation. That's says about all that's necessary. I assure you, I will not have any further conversations with or about this wonderful human being.
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Man, Bill I gave you a contact number I have spent a lot of time researching your high EGT we will leave it at that and I wish you luck
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And leave it at that we shall!
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Think if I had been fool enough to actually buy a Country Coach Conversion, Prevost & 2 stroke, (I love 2 strokes), I would be mad at the world too.
Every Prevost Country Coach I have been around was a very costly, never worked junk box due to the Country Coach BS then add a slide or two, holly moley, maddening.
Dave M
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Think if I had been fool enough to actually buy a Country Coach Conversion, Prevost & 2 stroke, (I love 2 strokes), I would be mad at the world too.
Every Prevost Country Coach I have been around was a very costly, never worked junk box due to the Country Coach BS then add a slide or two, holly moley, maddening.
Dave M
Nothing could be farther from the truth. The Country Coach part has been excellent. I love my bus, the layout, the modifications I have done and much, much, more. The problems are all related to the Detroit engine and the crappy electronics they used in the original DDEC I. My only complaints on the Prevost side is they won't do anything to get Detroit to step up and do something to help. It's likely going to turn out to be something stupid like a mouse chewed a wire somewhere but no one knows how to tell.
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Oh it is the truth, not necessarily about the conversion company but about the angry guy at the world. It also shows, or should I say glares, in your comments at the bottom of your screen name post about two companies you have dealt with. No one is perfect and everyone make errors and some people have to advertise for them but don't realize their own screaming flaws which seems to be the case with your follies.
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Hi All, here's a pics of last generation electronics country coach rear wall, this goes from side to side, this one didn't catch on fire from this point, lvmci...
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here's a marathon from 2 generations ago in the bay, with pull out IC cards, lvmci...
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Here's a pic of my electronics, on my mci5A, 1966, lvmci...
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Oh it is the truth, not necessarily about the conversion company but about the angry guy at the world. It also shows, or should I say glares, in your comments at the bottom of your screen name post about two companies you have dealt with. No one is perfect and everyone make errors and some people have to advertise for them but don't realize their own screaming flaws which seems to be the case with your follies.
But you cannot blame Country Coach for any of it! Yes, I got screwed but I did it to myself by not knowing enough about the coach I was buying. That also does not make the people who screwed it up any less culpable for the results of their efforts to deceive.
I have fixed nearly all of Rick Oaks screw ups and eventually I will be able to afford a new paint job that will solve the Roger Dahl shortcomings. I am just going to paint it unless I can get the engine issues resolved to my satisfaction. That's where Detroit fails to step up to the plate.
I don't have the crazy kind of electronics of later model RV's so simplicity was pretty much the buzz word for my conversion when Country Coach did this conversion.
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FWIW, My awareness of the Prevost/Country Coach , a friend has the 1999 45' with the 60 series, mechanically been a reasonable chassis, howsomever, the electronics by CC has been a continuous night mare requiring many hours $$$$$ continuous repairing by an ex CC ELECTRONCS TECH. Plus a few bladder air seals around the two slides. Sure my idea of a happy camper.
Dave M
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Dave
Well I will give my nickels worth. Our coach is about the same vintage as Bills. I also love the the interior finishing and layout, certainly not like some of the later over the top that would be more at home in LV glitz. It has(had) a voice synsethiser that has been disconnected and I would never miss anyway. I still have a glitch in the 110v system but I am sure that I will get to the bottom of it in time. I am going to improve upon the tankage set up this fall, because I think they could have done a better job there. The earlier coaches were simpler than the later generations. I for one am a firm believer in the kiss principle.
Bill
The last time I commented on your engine situation we had the problem narrowed down to two areas, but a few days later I was thinking about your problem and the throttle position sensor had not been mentioned.
I dont know whether by substitution of components what all has been tried and by whom
One of the problems that we are seeing more and more of with the younger generation of mechanic /technician that if the solution to the problem does not show up on the computer there is no solution to it. This same thing applies also to lots of other areas.
I donot know your skill level or background or wether you would tackle trouble shooting your wiring harnes but it is not an impossible task.
One of the members here and I will take the liberty of mentioning his name is Bill Gerry who build his own harnes for a DDEC 4. There is lots of talent on this board to draw from and dont be afraid to ask.
Joe.
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I sent him to a guy that owns a CC Eagle with a DDEC 1 same vintage as his Prevost it may not be a DD problem the mounting of drivers box and wiring is a CC or Prevost responsibility DD's responsibility stops at the engine then in becomes the OEM responsibility that's the DD way it has been for years, 8)FWIW Larry works on electrical problems on his CC Eagle he has done quite a bit of rewiring on his Eagle fwiw
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Dave
Well I will give my nickels worth. Our coach is about the same vintage as Bills. I also love the the interior finishing and layout, certainly not like some of the later over the top that would be more at home in LV glitz. It has(had) a voice synsethiser that has been disconnected and I would never miss anyway. I still have a glitch in the 110v system but I am sure that I will get to the bottom of it in time. I am going to improve upon the tankage set up this fall, because I think they could have done a better job there. The earlier coaches were simpler than the later generations. I for one am a firm believer in the kiss principle.
Bill
The last time I commented on your engine situation we had the problem narrowed down to two areas, but a few days later I was thinking about your problem and the throttle position sensor had not been mentioned.
I dont know whether by substitution of components what all has been tried and by whom
One of the problems that we are seeing more and more of with the younger generation of mechanic /technician that if the solution to the problem does not show up on the computer there is no solution to it. This same thing applies also to lots of other areas.
I donot know your skill level or background or wether you would tackle trouble shooting your wiring harnes but it is not an impossible task.
One of the members here and I will take the liberty of mentioning his name is Bill Gerry who build his own harnes for a DDEC 4. There is lots of talent on this board to draw from and dont be afraid to ask.
Joe.
Owning an older bus has made me more handy than I ever thought I was. I never replaced an alternator in my life until I owned this beast. I love my coach and I can't afford to have others take care of the small stuff so I learn as I go along. I even found a trouble-shooting guide for the DDEC I from another forum and started tracing down wires. Found and solved an error related to the TBS but it did not cure the issue.
The TPS has been mentioned previously but I do remember that one of the things the DDEC readers did show was that when the gas pedal was pushed the reader showed 100%. I've never done it, but I am sure I could replace one! Also, this issue exists when pushing the pedal or using cruise control. Would the TPS be in use while I am on cruise?
I do think this "oil" thread wandered and it's my fault. I want to apologize and maybe we could continue that discussion elsewhere if necessary.
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I sent him to a guy that owns a CC Eagle with a DDEC 1 same vintage as his Prevost it may not be a DD problem the mounting of drivers box and wiring is a CC responsibility DD's responsibility stops at the engine then in becomes the OEM responsibility that's the DD way it has been for years, 8)FWIW Larry works on electrical problems on his CC Eagle he has done quite a bit of rewiring on his Eagle fwiw
If I ever do get to Albuquerque I still plan to call Larry.
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You can read the throttle count on a DDEC I with a 39 dollar OBD reader from Wal/Mart but that is not the problem IMO or you would not have the high EGT from over fueling and not enough air. Larry will figure it out if you can make contact with him he has the strongest running DDEC I around
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The high temp issue was caused by Stewart and Stevenson in Dallas, TX 5-6 years ago so it's actually something someone physically changed. They deny this, of course.
The low turbo boost is a separate issue that existed prior to that, S&S just made it worse with the high temp issue.
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I found the problem I just haven't found the fix yet the low boost and high EGT is caused by the EDU or ECM not advancing the timing it is staying in the retarded mode for starting the EDU sends a high current to the ECM for the injectors and timing
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I have 2 EDU's (the one at the engine, correct?) and have the same problem with both. The ECM was exchanged but I was not there so have no further info on that. I assume they used the existing chip from my current ECM in the new one but that's only an assumption. The engine was also replaced and the problem still exists. That's why I "assume" a wiring issue somewhere. I have an original DDEC 1 trouble-shooting guide but since I am not seeing any codes it's hard to figure where to go. It seems I should be able to ohm each wire or check continuity on each but I am not sure how when all the wires have been painted silver and split off in several directions.
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This comes from the DDEC 1 troubleshooting guide and I am curious if you are familiar with the Timing Reference Sensor and the Synchronous Reference Sensor. Could an idiot at S&S "touched the 2 screws" and screwed up the timing? Do you know where these are and where I can find them?
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3890/14648455825_5bf7792fd6_m.jpg)
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Yea both are behind the cam pulley that has 8v92 embossed on it surely he set those 8)
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Yea both are behind the cam pulley that has 8v92 embossed on it surely he set those 8)
If he did "set" them and he did it incorrectly, could that be the source of the high exhaust temp? He did something as it was not an issue when we arrived so I am looking for a silly mistake he might have made.
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Thanks for posting this link RJ Long
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=77118&docFormat=PDF
I see that it clearly states: "Delo 400 monograde oils are not recommended for use in DDC two-stroke engines."
I have a 6V92 which seems to qualify under their term "DDC two-stroke engines"
Q: Has anyone actually contacted Chevron?
One of the reasons I ask is that some of the comments I read seem more based on subjective anecdotal evidence rather based on controlled objective experiments with the application of basic scientific methodologies, which is why I will take a WILD guess that Chevron might have sound logic reasoning to back up this statement/claim.
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Chevron didn't change the formula on 400 the fuel changed ,it is not carved in stone DD just recommends a low ash oil we always had to use a higher ash oil when we used the heavy fuels,even with my series 60 I am having a tough time finding CH-4 15/40 oil now the specs change every day it seems,the 400 LE I use in the 6.5 is only .5 ash content now but it's 15/40,the 2 strokes are dying no body is going to refine a special oil for a 2 stroke in a few years.The 2 strokes use has dropped from over to 2 million to under 400,000 in the last 5 years they are gone for the Military use
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Clifford,
I suspect you are correct about finding the original spec oil for these down the road and will need to use what is close and available and affordable. I'd not be surprised to find it is still made to order but priced accordingly.
For the low number of miles these old bus conversion run, it seems like just about any oil that is close will work fine. One could stockpile some barrels for the future; could actually be a true investment; ROI might be a bit low but surely not going to lose any value. Who ever thought anything associated with a bus conversion could be a true investment. ROLF!!
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People worry to much about the low ash oil Don,I am Delvac 1240 fan always have been for 2 strokes but used what 40w was available at times,this new fuel is a different animal it burns so clean.People never read the complete story on oils and fuels in chapter 13 of a manual lol only the internet