BNO BBS - BNO's Bulletin Board System
TOPICS => THE BOARD => Topic started by: zimtok on August 17, 2015, 10:13:34 AM
-
Has anyone replaced the throttle cable on a 4104?
I have already replaced the 1/8" cable inside the tube/casing once but it is starting to bind again. I was thinking I could replace the whole thing with a cable that comes with its own casing.
I want to keep it a mechanical cable. I don't want to go to an air throttle.
What cable, length, brand would be a good choice?
.
-
for starters was the original housing and cable still there? Next the main problem is the housing from the engine to the underside at the axles. It usually either rusted or worn out as it is on a curve from under the coach to the engine. It is replaceable and a truck shop can fix you with one. On installing it take the end loose under the floor at the front drivers door and then the same at the engine. take the cable and have it cut to length and don't worry about too long as mine clamps on the cable at the engine. The other end will need the fitting for securing on some units. When preparing to install from the rear get a tube of synthetic grease and put it in the housing to start and grease the cable freely while installing it. Push it as far as you can and then if you have any problem have someone to help with a drill on slow speed and turn it and you push as it turns and keep greasing the cable all the way. It takes a little time so don't hurry lol and messy too.
-
Thanks Gomer,
It has the original type of casing, whether it is original or not is unknown.
The cable in it is NOT original.
I had done exactly what you explained about 3 years ago.
I bought a 1/8" cable from the local hardware store 45' long. Greasing it as I pushed it through all the way to the front without any problems. Clamped it at the front, clamped it at the back to the correct length, cut the extra off.
I can do this again, but I thought if someone had replaced it with a newer style of cable that would last longer and maybe work smoother with less effort it may be worth a look at.
.
-
I know what you mean and other than installing an air throttle your only option is keeping what you got.. If you have the original casing all you may need is from the firewall to the engine
-
the problems i ran into on my 04 was the old grease gunked tubing I used a brand new original cable none better in my opinion,made to last. Then ran brake tubing behind my cabinets all way to bulk head.drilled through
-
I drove it 15 years after that whith no more problems,If i remember I had to use metric brake line to get a good tight fit that worked. Just an idea hope it helps
-
I have taken apart and cleaned the curved section of my throttle cable on my 4512 (similar I think). That was where I was getting resistance that caused sticky throttle. Took it out, brake cleaned cable and tube, re-greased the cable and all is well. The rubber boot on the end is VERY important if you drive in dusty conditions apparently :-)
Nice easy system to work on in my opinion!
-
The original center cable part is more like a speedo cable than anything else. There was a company in the Midwest (I think) some years ago that could supply it pretty inexpensively. I bet Luke can supply it too.
-
Remember to wash out the tube (housing) too. I took a pump-type garden sprayer and adapted fittings to the tube, then flushed kerosene through the tub. Lotsa gunk came out.
-
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.
I guess that I'll have to do a real good cleaning on it this time.
Last time (three years ago) I was in a hurry because I needed to get it back on the road. This time I'll make sure I have time to do a real good cleaning and maybe get the correct cable instead of just using a stock cable from a hardware store.
I have also noticed that my throttle lock cable casing is broken. If I pull on the throttle lock it will hold the throttle pedal just fine, but when I release it the cable is binding and preventing the throttle pedal from returning. That will be a project for another day. For now I have it disconnected at the throttle pedal.
.
-
Remember to lube it well when re-nstalling. Maybe a light grease, like Lubriplate.
-
I fought with the original cable on my '04 for 5 or 6 years. My biggest gripe was the engine took forever to idle down, making it hard to shift smoothly. I would pull the inner part, soak it and lube it. Sprayed cleaners and lubes into the housing. Finally it froze up damn near solid. I replaced it with a 40' cable for a MCI. Ran it through the bays. It took very little engineering to hook up the ends. It took a couple hours. Now the accelerator feels like a VW! Completely sealed and permanently lubed solution. My only regret was not doing it 5 years earlier.
-
I would buy a Morse/Teleflex cable and be done with it,I don't fight those cables anymore they are too easy to replace, just about any decent hose supplier can make you one the correct length with the right ends
-
If your 04 is the same as my 06 there are some cautions.
The cable run is NOT copper tubing it is very small brass PIPE!
So there is a difference in the inside diameter .
Also I would ONLY use the cable designed for the system , call LUKE .
Beware the wedges at the cable ends are easy to loose.
1/2 ATF 1/2 lacquer thinner pumped thru the old cable run will clean it out .
I prefer Teflon as the grease as it does not thicken below zero F.
Shifting will be fun again with a proper throttle response.
-
Luke had the correct cable.
It was pulled out of another bus and was about 40' long.
1. sprayed brake cleaner into the tube and then blew it out with compressed air, repeating this several times.
2. removed the swivel ends and took them completely apart de-gunked all of the parts including the keepers.
3. installed the cable and greased it with lithium grease.
4. installed the keeper to hold the cable on the front end first and attached it to the throttle peddle.
5. installed the keeper to hold the cable on the rear and adjusted cable for proper peddle movement.
6. only when I was sure that the cable was at the correct length and adjusted properly did I cut off the excess at the rear of the bus.
It is still a little stiff but the throttle response to the peddle movement is MUCH better.
The old cable that I pulled out was just regular 1/8" cable from a hardware store, it had cable clamps at each end to hold it to the ends. At one time it moved very smoothly with little resistance, in fact better then the new cable I just installed. Lately it had begun to get stuck and bind, and made the peddle feel spongy. It also didn't pull the throttle at the engine all the way which made my top speed drop about 5 mph.
When I pulled it out it had some kinks in it. I think these kinks prevented the cable from returning properly and allowed the peddle to move a little before pulling on the throttle at the engine reducing the response of the RPM's in comparison to the peddle movement.
Thanks for all the words of advice, it sure helped guide me in this repair.
.
-
I had this problem a year or so ago. I had a braided cable that went bad and when I looked into it I found out that there was this special spiral cable used in the application. I think they called it a helix wrapped cable. This kind of cable is used in airplanes. Finding one proved impossible. Even with Luke at the time. I tried a 1/8 braided, too big and a 3/16 braided, too small. I eventually found a cable manufacturer and got a 5/32 cable that has worked ever since. I have included a link to my blog post in hopes this threat provides good info to the next poor soul that has this issue.
http://www.1willwander.com/2013/11/bad-throttle-cable-on-pd-4014.html (http://www.1willwander.com/2013/11/bad-throttle-cable-on-pd-4014.html)
-
Fixed it!
I heated almost the entire length of the housing with a propane torch.
Close to the front of the rear luggage bay, grease started boiling out of the tube. Cleaning and inspection showed that that the tubing had cracked over a six inch section.
I cut through the cable assemble with a Dremel and had a look. The front section of the inner cable pulled out easily and the rear section was still stuck fast. My guess is that the housing had cracked in this spot because trying to apply the throttle was causing the inner cable to deform here, right in front of the stoppage.
A little more work, and the rear section of the inner cable came out. I patched the housing and cleaned it up. The new inner member is now installed and the whole thing has been trimmed and adjusted.
Works like a champ.
-
I remember when I finally spent the time and complete freed up the cable on my coach. Night and day difference (and no more high-idling at traffic lights and down hills!)
-
These are some good tips, although an old post, relevant even today.
How the heck were you able to heat the entire length of the housing? Isn't this housing in an enclosed chute that runs the length of the bus? Can I access that area? I plan to pull out my cable, I might take the opportunity to at least blow out the housing tube with air, solvent or something. If I can heat it, or access in any way, please chime in here,
Jay
-
The throttle cable housing in the 4104 is made of sections of brass tubing connected through flare couplings at bulkheads. This allows one section to be repaired or replaced. It runs inside the piping conduit that runs through the baggage bays. This conduit has removable covers on the bottom that can be accessed through the bays, but the forward connection of the problem section is between the rear & next fwd bulkhead which you must access from under the bus (after you run it up on blocks & block body so it can not drop). Ours was s stuck I couldn't remove the inner cable, but had to remove the rear brass outer part with it.
The binding is almost always in the section from rear bulkhead to engine where the grease dries out due to the engine & radiator heat in the engine compartment. (most of these cables probably haven't been maintained in 40 years!) They usual last owner "fix" is to put 3 return springs back at the governor instead of 1, making the throttle pedal really heavy.
As has been said, once you get this neglected cable properly clean & lubed, with the correct inner cable, the bus shifts like a dream. The engine governor is matched to the transmission shift time. Pedal effort is like a car once it is right. Don't be quick to give up on the original rig.
-
In almost four decades of the same 4104 ownership we have performed throttle cable maintainence on a regular basis. Adding spring tension at the engine is voodoo for excessive cable to conduit ware. If the cable in conduit is maintained correctly (kept clean & lubricated) only light spring tension at the engine is required - placing less friction between cable & conduit. Don't forget there is also a spring on the front end of the cable (at the throttle peddle) so when proper springs (front & back) are used & the cable/conduit run is maintained - only then will a recently serviced mechanical throttle cable give many years of trouble free service. The two springs (front & back) work in unison with each other placing very little wear between cable & conduit with very little drag for smooth almost effortless mechanical cable response. The front spring is much heavier (harder pulling) than the rear spring). We have much respect and a persistent drive to maintain what was engineered is the way it was engineered. It seems to be the best approach to maintaining the antique beast with the least effort.